appropriate action???

[bastet]

After visiting the local watering hole tonight and running into an all too common situation I cant help but to ask, what would be the most appropriate action in this situation...

On several occassions one bouncer has grabbed people, male and female, and physically tried to remove them from the bar, for no reason other than to be an asshole, as well as held a woman in a chokehold, pushed people as if to instigate a fight and punched people in the face.

Other occurrences similar to this have happened since then, on a regular basis with only one bouncer, who I shall call Rod. However what happened tonight left me wondering if defending myself or my friend inside of a bar against the bouncer would even hold up as "self defense".

Aside the history from previous occurrences, Rod came over to my friend once he saw her enter the door, grabbed her by the shoulders and told her to get the **** out. She replied that she was here to pick up her boyfriend and for him not to touch her. A verbal confrontation occurred...you're a pig who likes to hit women... and a different new bouncer replied...I like to hit women too! FYI...my friend and I were sober...The new bouncer then shoved my friend to try to get her outside. Now...my friend is a loud oppionated woman who isnt afraid to tell someone if she thinks they are in the wrong and will continue to do so until she thinks her point was made. however this led to her and the new bouncer pushing and kicking eachother with me in the middle trying to breakup the fight. I was in the situation where he was still trying to attack my friend who was behind me and he actually kicked her through my legs. At some point I felt like it would have been appropriate to elbow him in the face and end it right there but I didnt and eventually the manager came outside and deescalated the situation.

I felt like we were being attacked, by two men. My friend was physically grabbed, shoved and kicked. But these two men work as bouncers at that bar. Do they have the authority or the right to do that to someone and get away with it because they work there? Or if it got out of hand and I did try to defend myself and my friend would that be considered self defense?

[RQ]

Do they have the authority or the right to do that to someone and get away with it because they work there? Or if it got out of hand and I did try to defend myself and my friend would that be considered self defense?


do they have the authority or right? NO. but the sad fact is no matter how much in the wrong they are LE will always side with them unfortunately.

Also "elbow him in the face and end it right there" ... well I've been in more than a few bar fights and it hardly ever ends with just an elbow. lol would be nice though wouldn't it?

[Jeremy Stafford]

do they have the authority or right? NO. but the sad fact is no matter how much in the wrong they are LE will always side with them unfortunately.

That's not a fact, just your opinion. Having responded to several of those types of calls, I can attest to the fact that some bouncers approach their authority with a little too much zeal....Bastet, PM me.

[KravMDjeff]

Yes, even though I'm not LE, I can tell you that in the party districts in Baltimore, the police regularly lock up the bouncers along with the bar patrons who started the fight. Part of the reason is that in Baltimore there is a very well-known "security" company called BSA (Baltimore Security Agency). They provide doorman services and the like. But from the bar owners and bartenders I know, many of them have criminal records for violent offenses, and no marketable skills other than their willingness to engage in a physical confrontation.

[downforlife76]

Bouncers are hard to deal with. As a musician who plays dive bars with ape-ish bouncers on a regular basis (Wish me luck tonight!), I've had quite a lot of experience in this area.

The bottom line is that they are being paid to control access and make sure everything stays cool inside. They have the authority to tell you to leave. When they do, resorting to confrontational words or actions can cause problems. When a bouncer tells me to go outside, I do. If I am in the right, I will try to discuss it with the bouncer, see why he had a problem, and see if there is a solution we can reach (If you're in the wrong, go to another bar and try not to act stupid there). If that doesn't work, I ask to talk to the manager or the promoter. Usualy you have to call, because if they're in the wrong, they dont want to get in trouble.

If you get confrontational, people will see that and the bouncers can try to justify their actions. If you aren't doing anything and they assault you... People will notice that as well and you will have witnesses to get the bastard locked up.

If this guy has a history of this kind of crap... Complain to the manager and encorage others to do the same. They don't want to lose business and there is a surplus of other security guards who would love to take homeboy's job.

I guess my main point is the best way to win in a situation like this is to defuse the situation before it gets crazy. I have a bit of a temper myself, and nothing will set me off like seeing someone hit/push/kick a woman, but blowing up isn't always the right answer.

J

P.S. Which bar is this? Maybe the next time I feel like fighting an asshole I'll meet up with you for a drink! :chair:

[resqr1]

Your best appropriate action would be to find a new bar to hang out in. If you don't, you're asking for trouble.

[stevetuna]

Your best appropriate action would be to find a new bar to hang out in. If you don't, you're asking for trouble.


Can't say it better than that. Furthermore, as a cop, I'll also take exception with the comment about cops always siding with the bouncers.

[bastet]

He was a little guy...think I could've taken him;) Its the other guy who would have put up a good fight!!

[bastet]

Another reason that we would like to continue to go there is because its right around the corner from where we work, about half of the employees where I work like to go there, and we've all developed good relationships with some of the bartenders and servers. Weve only had a problem with one particular bouncer, aside from the new guy he was with that nite. We all try to avoid going when he's there but we dont want to stop going alltogether because of the one asshole who happens to be in a gang, which is why some of his employees dont want to speak out against him...

[downforlife76]

We all try to avoid going when he's there but we dont want to stop going alltogether because of the one asshole who happens to be in a gang, which is why some of his employees dont want to speak out against him...


That's pretty lame. If you guys are regulars there, talk to the manager about it. I don't care if the guy is Tony Montona... Not speaking out against him because he's in a gang let's those sons of bitches have power they don't deserve.

J-

[Badge54]

"Now...my friend is a loud oppionated woman who isnt afraid to tell someone if she thinks they are in the wrong and will continue to do so until she thinks her point was made. however this led to her and the new bouncer pushing and kicking eachother with me in the middle trying to breakup the fight. I was in the situation where he was still trying to attack my friend who was behind me and he actually kicked her through my legs."

Don't forget to talk to your friend about setting you up in a confrontation. She did nothing to De-escalate the situation.

Badge54