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My observations on Krav Maga culture,it's growth and instructors.

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  • #16
    Re: My observations on Krav Maga culture,it's growth and instructors.

    Bullshido.net is a great site for weeding out the BS. Unfortunately, because of the wide marketing campaign coupled with the fact that instructor certs can be had relatively easily, Krav Maga is looked down upon at that forum.
    "Always avoid, escape, talk down, loop hole if you can, don't be physical unless you really have to be physical, because it really isn't the answer. If you have to be physical, be first and be ferocious. Take them off the planet. But if you can avoid it than you must."
    - Geoff Thompson

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    • #17
      Re: My observations on Krav Maga culture,it's growth and instructors.

      My two favorite frauds of the moment are these guys:

      A 500lb Italian Grandmaster who has no KM lineage but created an organization...he friends everyone on facebook and tags legit instructors in his pics. He even photoshops his logos on others and recently got in trouble for photoshopping his logo on Grandmaster Haim Zut.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbP3_...layer_embedded

      And this homegrown favorite. Started under a legit guy and then went and got certified by a phantom legend. A google search will show a long history of falsified credentials. He even started a martial arts hall of fame and inducted himself. But of course now he has his own KM association and certifies instructors and tons of students will be misled and poorly trained.

      http://kravmagaassociation.com/Instructor.html


      I also get a kick out of the Israeli karate instructor who goes around giving out black belts in "Authentic Krav Maga"...the irony is that it is the exact opposite.
      Man...the pathologies you will find in the martial arts world amaze me.

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      • #18
        Re: My observations on Krav Maga culture,it's growth and instructors.

        and these are just the ones who I think are mentally disturbed. Three new orgs have popped up recently started by ex-KMWW black belts some of whom started their own groups and self ranked themselves and their top students and now certify instructors nationwide. At least these guys were properly trained at one point and have experience in the system.

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        • #19
          Re: My observations on Krav Maga culture,it's growth and instructors.

          Kevin, I used to joke with my instructor about how every week there's a new KM ORGANISATION that pops up offering "authentic" KM. We don't even joke about it now as it has blown up in a major way...

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          • #20
            Re: My observations on Krav Maga culture,it's growth and instructors.

            I just re-read the Italian guys bio and I cant stop laughing. Near the end of the list he doesnt even bother putting any thought into the made up groups..it reads like he just picked random words and threw them together. Its just insanity. http://fikm.org/president_head_master_40.html

            My bio seems totally lame in comparison. I actually need to update it soon so hmmmmmm.
            http://atlantickravmaga.com/instructors.htm




            I think I might start the Actual Obvious Verifiable Krav Maga Federation of the United States and Israel.
            The AOVKMUSI.
            Last edited by KevinMack; 02-22-2012, 01:43 AM. Reason: additional txt and link

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            • #21
              Re: My observations on Krav Maga culture,it's growth and instructors.

              You should. it is obvious this is going out of hand and hurt those who legitly providing authentic service.

              Regulation in this case is probably the best solution. not only for KM.

              I honestly think that someone who teaches a martial art has much more responsibility than a gym trainer. a MA trainer, just like you said, is responsible to provide exact what he sell his client. which are tools to defend himself. if the instructor is a fraud and know nothing of what he actually teach, then that is a national security issue and only for that sole reason there should be some regulation especially when it comes down to SD lessons.

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              • #22
                Re: My observations on Krav Maga culture,it's growth and instructors.

                Originally posted by Joseph Kor View Post
                I honestly think that someone who teaches a martial art has much more responsibility than a gym trainer. a MA trainer, just like you said, is responsible to provide exact what he sell his client. which are tools to defend himself. if the instructor is a fraud and know nothing of what he actually teach, then that is a national security issue and only for that sole reason there should be some regulation especially when it comes down to SD lessons.
                I agree completely, people who do this are actually (at times) making their students more vulnerable to danger and injury (or death).
                -----------------------------------------------------
                "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

                If you are not willing to stand behind our Troops, feel free to stand in front of them!

                -Paco

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                • #23
                  Re: My observations on Krav Maga culture,it's growth and instructors.

                  Could be worse, someone could be combining KM with Yellow Bamboo... (search YouTube for Yellow Bamboo)...

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                  • #24
                    Re: My observations on Krav Maga culture,it's growth and instructors.

                    .... what the f.......

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhnvETs4F6Q

                    Not sure if the BJJ guy is just trolling them or did the YB members ask him to do this.

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1ykNZ7rAcw

                    Anyways.... before I derail this thread.... There is no real "authority" to govern KM. You have different organizations but that's about it. Then you go into the politics and whatnot which has been beaten to death time and time again. I think prospective students and students alike just need to research their instructor/training studio and make informed decisions.
                    Last edited by KMyoshi; 02-22-2012, 04:51 PM.
                    "Always avoid, escape, talk down, loop hole if you can, don't be physical unless you really have to be physical, because it really isn't the answer. If you have to be physical, be first and be ferocious. Take them off the planet. But if you can avoid it than you must."
                    - Geoff Thompson

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: My observations on Krav Maga culture,it's growth and instructors.

                      Originally posted by KMyoshi View Post
                      I think prospective students and students alike just need to research their instructor/training studio and make informed decisions.
                      I couldn't agree more. The bottom line is "caveat emptor"!
                      "It is better to avoid than to run; better to run than to de-escalate; better to de-escalate than to fight; better to fight than to die."

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                      • #26
                        Re: My observations on Krav Maga culture,it's growth and instructors.

                        Question is: do you leave the research and the background check for the one who represents only himself and just simply, with no MA experience seek authentic SD lessons? or you try and help him and assume, that he may fail or be lazy enough to really put the effort to steer between all the frauds out there.

                        If someone doesnt have the time, or, the power to search for an authentic trainer - he shouldnt be doomed to be trained by a fraud. not when it comes down to SD lessons. it can work when you buy bubblegums. it can work when you buy cloths perhaps, but not when you going to train in a MA or a reality based system you may relay on in the future.

                        look, i dont argue that even a legit trainer might not make his student a worthy fighter who can pull of everything he has learnt at the time of need. though, the least he can do for his trainee is teach what he know under the umbrella of krav maga authentic curriculum. now if the trainer claims he teach KM but in practice he doesnt.. he already puts his student in a disadvantage against any possible threat.

                        This stuff must be regulated. this is not a joke.

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                        • #27
                          Re: My observations on Krav Maga culture,it's growth and instructors.

                          IMHO I think things like this needs to be self regulated by Krav Maga's higher ranking members. I do not think the entire MA community should be yet another burden on the government. That's what I got when you say "regulated" anyways so I apologize if you meant otherwise. I'm not privy on what goes on in the secret circles of KM organizations but from my understanding, once Imi passed away, all the higher ranking KM students broke off into their own organization. In order for any order or regulation to be had, all KM organizations need to come under one roof. Without that, it'll be "well my organization does it this way..." etc. etc.

                          You are right in that a student should not be doomed to train under a fraud instructor but sometimes that's all you get. Sure if you live in a big city you can have many other arts/options when it comes to self defense, but if you live in a smaller city/town and the only instructor in KM is some TKD studio that just got certified or is teaching their own "style" of KM mixed with traditional MA (TMA) etc. etc. You don't have much choices. I think that the whole honor code of doing whats right and not just trying to make a buck should make its return, but that's a moral thing and you can't teach morality. They themselves have to make that choice.
                          "Always avoid, escape, talk down, loop hole if you can, don't be physical unless you really have to be physical, because it really isn't the answer. If you have to be physical, be first and be ferocious. Take them off the planet. But if you can avoid it than you must."
                          - Geoff Thompson

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: My observations on Krav Maga culture,it's growth and instructors.

                            See...I dont think something needs to be done in an organized manner by KM orgs or the government. The different KM orgs are never going to be able to work together as long as money and business is the their prime motivation. I also dont expect people to agree on every aspect of curriculum and standards and practices.
                            But I think things would change for the better if everyone agreed that the certification course model of educating instructors and affiliates is not the way to go and to return to the apprentice model that most martial arts followed up until 12 years or so ago.
                            For instance...in the tattoo business the apprentice training model is the standard for bringing up new tattoo artists. If you want to learn how to tattoo and to do it as a profession you find an artist that will take you on as an apprentice...he trains you till he feels that you are ready to work on your own. This is the excepted standard. Tattooists that are self taught or took other shortcuts are called "scratchers" and are looked down upon and not accepted by the community. There is no organization that regulates this. Every tattoo shop has the right to run his own business the way he sees fit. They dont even chase down frauds or try to expose them because they all agree on a professional stand so the frauds stand out.
                            Even KM orgs stop looking for the quick buck that lies in speading affiliates and certifying instructors and returns to a more organic method of growing instructors in-house then the frauds and instructors who buy their qualifications will be more obvious and everything would be much better in the long run.

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                            • #29
                              Re: My observations on Krav Maga culture,it's growth and instructors.

                              i honestly think that firstly: when fitness is on the matter, or even when not, instructors should learn the basics which fitness trainers may go through. before they're KM instructors, they also are fitness instructors.

                              i think the scenario of someone passing knowledge from one to another doesnt really hold ground when it refers to KM, or maybe even most MA's.

                              KM organizations dont hesitate to mention everytime how KM is a military based program, however, what they ofcourse tend to forget and implement in their structures is that every KM/fitness trainer in the army must pass a course that certify them to train before they even teach any curriculum.

                              the drills might be similar, the idea is the same. but when it comes to safety and making sure you put the lives of your students in worthy hand is totaly left out. imo, in the civlian world it is even more critical for an instructor to know anything about the human body before putting anyone under severe stress, and be examined for that.

                              i think that all the legit organizations, like you said kevin, should come down to their senses and make an effort to build a program they can all agree to. some steps any instructor will go through in the way of becoming a teacher.

                              and perhaps have a universal exam that every future instructor must go through to prove he knows the matirial. otherwise, it's not worth that much.

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                              • #30
                                Re: My observations on Krav Maga culture,it's growth and instructors.

                                Check this guy out, he's here in Miami and just decided to form an alliance on his own.

                                http://www.kravmagaalliance.net/
                                Rick Prado
                                (formerly know as Plantman)

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