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Overhead Stick Defense Explained.

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  • Overhead Stick Defense Explained.

    This is a little rougher video than the other ones I have shot. This was shot to explain some questions my students had on the subject but how camera wasn't working so I had to shoot on a phone. So I apologize for no close up shots. It was also unplanned so the cameragirl didn't quite know what angle to shoot from. I might re-shoot it at a later date. There are a lot more details I want to add as well.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgsOmWw3pPk

  • #2
    Re: Overhead Stick Defense Explained.

    Nice video Kevin. Similar, but not exactly like it's taught in IKMF. I find the differences between organizations facinating. Are you still with the IKMA?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Overhead Stick Defense Explained.

      How is it different? If you type in IKMF stick defense the videos you see show the same thing. I have trained with Eyal,Gabi and Avi and watched many iof their videos and I havent seen any real difference. Its also the same defence as in Imi's book "How to defend Against an Armed Assault"
      Not being a dick..I am just honestly curious.

      I was never really with IKMA. Though I did train at Davey's school for awhile and my instructor still teaches there part time.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Overhead Stick Defense Explained.

        On the first defense the differences from how I was taught are:

        After the initial defense of punch and redirection of the stick the left hand follows the attackers arm down to the wrist as the right hand hooks the neck. The wrist is secured with a straight left arm while a knee or kick is thrown. Then the body is turned to the inside and the right hand is reached under to grab the stick. This breaks the stick against the thumb which makes it easier for the disarm.

        My statement was made less about the actual technique and more about the slight differences in philosophy that I see. For instance(and these are only my perceptions) I see a blurred line in techniques taught to students of IKMA where there are distinct separations in techniques in the IKMF between civilian, LE, etc. I also see a difference in philosophy in that IKMF wants you to get away while KMWW seems to want to make it a fight.

        Again, the whole statement was meant as a compliment. You look to be an excellent instructor.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Overhead Stick Defense Explained.

          No worries..I wasnt insulted. I was just interested as after you said that I tried to notice a difference. For the record...I actually glossed over showing any disarms in that video as I had limited time and I was really trying to answer the questions of some students who asked why you would use one defense over the other. The disarms were one of the details I mentioned that I would be adding in a reshot. I teach a couple of disarms to my students as options based on how you end up. I am kind of against showing one exact way to control the opponent and disarm them as there are a variety of ways you will end up.
          As much as I like the IKMF I respectfully disagree with the stun and run way they teach their students. In fact I think if could be dangerous. The main reason being....where you going to run to? If a woman is walking to her car in a dark parking lot and is attacked and she uses a basic KM defense and hits the guy once or twice but does not totally incapacitate him and starts to run away.....whats to stop the guy from chasing after her and grabbing her again and now she has angered him and lost the element of surprise. In a home invasion you are attacked in bed...you fight back with two or three attacks...where are you going to? Downstairs to be attacked again by a guy who is not knocked out?
          A stun and run or get out of there mentality is fine when you have some place close to escape to where you can be safe or to get help. But the fact of reality is that we tend to be attacked when we are vulnerable....alone...and where help is hard to find. Only you can help you and you are not out of danger till the threat has been removed and that is when the attacker has been knocked down and unable to get up to continue attacking you.
          The sad fact is that in a city like Philadelphia you could be attacked on a dark street at night..escape from your attacker and run down the street screaming for help and knocking on doors and there is a very good chance that no one will open there doors to help you. In fact there are many cases of women being beaten by their boyfriends in public and no one steps in. there was a news video of an old woman walking around Philly running errands with a knife lodged in the back of her head(she had no idea she was stabbed) and not one single person said anything to her at any of the places she went to.
          This is the reality of the world we live in. It goes back as far as the Kitty Genovese case. The IKMF approach may work in smaller European cities with less violence and weapons as well as countries with a more cooperative approach to helping their neighbors....but not here.
          Last edited by KevinMack; 04-22-2012, 10:47 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Overhead Stick Defense Explained.

            Originally posted by KevinMack View Post
            This is the reality of the world we live in. It goes back as far as the Kitty Genovese case. The IKMF approach may work in smaller European cities with less violence and weapons as well as countries with a more cooperative approach to helping their neighbors....but not here.
            Agreed! I'd also like to add that in this state of constant litigation people are less apt to assist someone due to potential liability and repercussions of their actions.


            I gave CPR to a child in the park who had fallen struck their head and stopped breathing, I had to get an attorney.


            Sad but true.
            I believe that self-defense is a moral imperative, and that illegitimate force and illegal violence must be met with righteous indignation and superior violence.

            But hey, thats just me.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Overhead Stick Defense Explained.

              IKMF's stuff seems to work well enough in Israel. Well, there you go......differences in philosophy.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Overhead Stick Defense Explained.

                and thats my point exactly. I hate writing on my iPad so I will just write these in a series of points.

                - First..despite the fear od violence from terrorism israel is a relatively safe country to live in. Violent crime is rather low. Compare the violent crime rate of that entire country to the city of Philadelphia which has over 200 murders a year. Philly is connected by bridge to Camden,NJ which has the 2nd highest crime rate in the US. This doesnt include the surrounding towns. The violent crime rate of just this city far exceeds the crime rate of their entire nation.

                - Israelis have a totally different idea of civic responsibility than Americans. For instance an Israeli told me that its is the responsibilty of a citizen to offer a ride to a soldier if they see him walking. It is a shame not to. Israelis welcome strangers into their homes on a regular basis. It is part of their culture.

                - This also applies to their approach to self defense and counter terrorism. Citizens are taught and expected to swarm and try to retrains a terrrorist in the case of a suicide bomber or attacker whether they are law enforcement or not. It is the idea of losing one or two lives to save hundreds. They also teach this to kids in Israel in active shooter scenarios. You can not get away with this approach in the US for liability reasons and due to our philosophies. No school will allow you to come in and teach their kids to try and attack a terrorist in their school. Yet what saved the lives of many students at Virginia Tech?

                - Even the IKMF approach to LE is different there than here. Gabi Noah came to my school and we did some training with cars. He was showing some things to a LE student of mine that involved Israeli LE tactics. He showed that in Israeli during a traffic stop of a suspect one officer approaches the drivers side window while one stands directly in front of the car with his gun drawn. When my students asked why he stood in front as he saw it as a dangerous place to be...he asked "what if if the driver starts to drive forward or tries to run the officer down"...Gabi said we just shoot him. The car moves we shoot. My student was like we can not do that in the US at least in our department.

                So while the techniques work in Israel their mindset and cultural responsibilities are very different than Americans in all aspects of live and even self defense.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Overhead Stick Defense Explained.

                  but enough of my ranting...anyone have any suggestions for future video topics?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Overhead Stick Defense Explained.

                    How 'bout a prison type, rapid, multiple stab to the gut, underhand.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Overhead Stick Defense Explained.

                      a how to or a defense ?

                      :)

                      Originally posted by Coda Vex View Post
                      How 'bout a prison type, rapid, multiple stab to the gut, underhand.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Overhead Stick Defense Explained.

                        Originally posted by KevinMack View Post
                        a how to or a defense ?

                        :)
                        Touche' . Stay thirsty my friend!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Overhead Stick Defense Explained.

                          I thought the video, was very good, however, as it pertains to overhead stick defense, Kevin explains that you go dead side if you react late, I've always been taught that you make up your mind and go live side or dead side regardless of timing.

                          Haim Gidon told me a couple of years ago that they now only go dead side when attacked overhand at an angle and you can't square up to go inside. Other than that, the default defense is bursting inside.

                          Nir Maman teaches the defense a little different in that both hands shoot thru, and your counter is the rear knee and the forearm attacking the throat/neck/jaw.

                          I happen to like that one more, I've always felt that punching someone in the face as you perform the defense will make the attacker go backwards quicker than you may expect, in which case, you may not be able to control the stick; in the event you didn't knock him out, you now have to deal with a guy who still has a stick. Of course you follow up with more attacks, but I like the counter with a knee first.

                          That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

                          Interesting differences.
                          Rick Prado
                          (formerly know as Plantman)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Overhead Stick Defense Explained.

                            Originally posted by Coda Vex View Post
                            How 'bout a prison type, rapid, multiple stab to the gut, underhand.
                            I second this request - how to defend that is.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Overhead Stick Defense Explained.

                              Originally posted by Coda Vex View Post
                              How 'bout a prison type, rapid, multiple stab to the gut, underhand.
                              +1. I'd like to see that too, Kevin!

                              The way Nir Maman shows it, you have to address a couple of problems in the defense. First, it's at such close range that you can't really see the knife hand moving. Second, he's probably going to try to grab you with his off hand while he's doing it.

                              Assuming he's got the knife in his right hand and is grabbing with his left, you trap his left with your right and grab his right shoulder with your left (Kevin's handles) so you can feel him start the thrust even though you can't see it. As he thrusts, you leave your left hand on his shoulder, drop your left elbow and twist your body to deflect the knife arm inside with your elbow and forearm. Then you slide your left hand down to control the knife wrist and go to work with the usual strikes, disarm, etc.

                              Comment

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