Iron palm training

[brewmasher]

Has anyone trained in Iron Palm to supplement KM? If so any recommendations on training at home?

[lennyKRAVitz]

Originally Posted by brewmasher

Has anyone trained in Iron Palm to supplement KM? If so any recommendations on training at home?

I'd leave iron palm to iron man and other fantasy characters!

[brewmasher]

Originally Posted by lennyKRAVitz

I'd leave iron palm to iron man and other fantasy characters!

Every unarmed combat discipline has some sort of hand conditioning training to toughen the hands for striking. I am new to KM, so I have not been exposed to any hand conditioning yet.

Being older and not as fast and strong as I used to be, any potential attacker will likely be younger/stronger/faster. Having rock hard striking weapons can level the playing field. Iron Palm kung fu specializes in this area. Many professional combatants who fight for a living train in this art. It is not a fantasy. I know KM stresses that it should be doable by anyone, not the physically gifted, but this seems to a worthy addition to supplement KM.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSYuOr_zfYw

[catapult]

When you take away the mysticism of iron hand, it's just about toughening up your hands, wrists, arms, etc. Punching and kicking a heavy bag with no gloves or shin guards should do that nicely. Do it in moderation until you get toughened up and refine your technique so you won't hurt yourself.

[lennyKRAVitz]

Originally Posted by catapult

When you take away the mysticism of iron hand, it's just about toughening up your hands, wrists, arms, etc. Punching and kicking a heavy bag with no gloves or shin guards should do that nicely. Do it in moderation until you get toughened up and refine your technique so you won't hurt yourself.

Agree 100%! Let's call it hand conditioning from now on rather that iron palm. I'd also include makiwara training (and the like) if you are wanting that also.

[brewmasher]

Sure, I have done the standard knuckle push ups, makiwara training and the like. I have also seen deformed knobby looking hands clustered with callouses. Iron- whoops- traditional Chinese and Tibetan hand conditioning martial arts promises fists of steel without loss of feeling and mobility. Heck, I don't want to give up the feel of soft womanly curves just to create weapons out of my hands.

Central to these arts are striking progressively harder surfaces, using special lineaments before and after training, and chi kung exercises. Before dismissing such as mysticism, perhaps there is some merit to the lineament keeping the skin soft, yet tough, and the ligaments and sinews pliable. Maybe the chi movements create greater blood flow to the extremities. I really would like to talk to someone who can give me a realistic assessment.

[catapult]

Krav is about defending yourself, not putting your fist through a brick wall. Most real fights don't last very long. You learn a lot of strikes in Krav classes. If you can do them several times, full power on a heavy bag, without hurting yourself, your hands are tough enough to win a fight. The rest is up to your technique and your warrior spirit. So, you end up with bruised knuckles after the fight? Big deal, the other dude is on the ground!

[wen1859]

Originally Posted by brewmasher

Has anyone trained in Iron Palm to supplement KM? If so any recommendations on training at home?

Iron palm works, and it is possible for a person to develop power that can kill in one strike. If you find a good program and teacher, you can be successful. It does take a few years of dedicated training daily to realize its full potential.

[bear34]

Originally Posted by wen1859

Iron palm works, and it is possible for a person to develop power that can kill in one strike. If you find a good program and teacher, you can be successful. It does take a few years of dedicated training daily to realize its full potential.

No disrespect intended, but that is the most ridiculous bull**** I have heard since Michelle Bachmann debated Rick Santorum. Thanks for the laughs.

[wen1859]

Originally Posted by bear34

No disrespect intended, but that is the most ridiculous bull**** I have heard since Michelle Bachmann debated Rick Santorum. Thanks for the laughs.

If I were you I wouldn't believe it either. Fortunately I am not you and I have experienced it directly. I have been around martial arts for close to 40 years, and have only met 5 people with that ability. I felt their power. It goes through you like nothing else. So don't believe me, it doesn't matter to me. It's not a necessary skill to have any way.

[Metta World Krav Maga]

Originally Posted by wen1859

If I were you I wouldn't believe it either. Fortunately I am not you and I have experienced it directly. I have been around martial arts for close to 40 years, and have only met 5 people with that ability. I felt their power. It goes through you like nothing else. So don't believe me, it doesn't matter to me. It's not a necessary skill to have any way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LphoXa5gII

[wen1859]

Thanks, that's funny! I will use it on someone else later. :-)

[Metta World Krav Maga]

[wiccaman]

Notwithstanding the fact that I'm very much a KM aficionado I pretty much hero worship WE Fairbairn so I take his 'advice' that if you ever punch you should be on a charge (as there's a very big risk you'll damage your hand and not be able to use your rifle).

I will occasionally punch to soft targets (side of neck, liver, kidneys etc) if that's the best option at the time but generally I'll stick to palm strikes, hammer fists etc. It's safer and I can hit a LOT harder that way than I can punch.

The only advantage I can see with a punch is the extra few inches of range and if I'm at that distance I can probably kick him anyway.

Now, just wished I'd known all that before I spent 10 years punching buckets of hot sand 4 hours a day before breakfast.

[Seraphs Coal]

Its no doubt quite different to what is being discussed here, but the Wing Chun one inch punch tactic seems quite interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sItMU...BWfFtrOlB8nRQQ

[KMyoshi]

Originally Posted by Seraphs Coal

Its no doubt quite different to what is being discussed here, but the Wing Chun one inch punch tactic seems quite interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sItMU...BWfFtrOlB8nRQQ

That looks more like a push/shove if anything.

[catapult]

Yeah, it's more like a one foot punch with a shove follow through.

Even when a shaolin master does it, it's more like a 4 inch punch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wxe3u-K8H8

That said, that's one tough little dude and he generates a ton of power on the crash test dummy. But there's nothing superhuman about it. The only strike they compared to other martial artists is his straight right to the head and he generated about the same power as an elite boxer according to the tester.

[KMyoshi]

Interesting, so me hitting a heavy bag with my bare knuckles and using palm heel strikes will harden (condition) it? (serious question).

[JewishFitness1976]

Would anyone like arthritis in their old age ?

[ari-free]

Originally Posted by KMyoshi

Interesting, so me hitting a heavy bag with my bare knuckles and using palm heel strikes will harden (condition) it? (serious question).

Palm heel strikes will harden it, if you don't overdo it (unfortunately, most people don't know when to stop) and give your body a chance to rest and rebuild. It's just like muay thai fighters training their shins on a pad. Fist hardening, on the other hand, is a bit more complicated since it is not a single smooth striking surface.

It's not magic. It only appears to be an "ancient Chinese secret" probably because kung fu instructors didn't want their students to overdo it and possibly injure themselves.

Dit da jow is basically Menthol and Methyl Salicylate and helps with pain/inflammation. You can get the same thing from Bengay or Icy Hot so you don't have to get ripped off by some voodoo herbal practitioner.

[Contact Combat]

I Have, But then i also train in Kung Fu

[Contact Combat]

there is way more than one way to train to train in iron palm, for instance there is the direct method, the hundred day method, the partially indirect method, the internal method, i can break rocks, cement blocks, and various other items and the training i have done will not give me arthritis, we trained the tendons, muscles, and the bones so a masters hands look totally normal and yet we can crush items that a untrained person would break his/her hand on. iron palm is very powerful and a good suppliment to any martial arts, but be advised to train with extreme caution, the best way i have found to train is the 100 day method, this will allow you to break a normal house building brick, but you train twice a day, you will need dit da jow, or another type of healing oil, to put on your hands so that you will not damage yourself, and then there is a multiple usage striking techniques that you do on a bag normally filled with beans or sand, and then later you will progess to iron fillings, or ball bearings, or even small rocks, but countinued training on a sand bag will give you the same results as iron fillings and so forth, but the time spent training will be longer, but never train without a oil or liniment of some sort and you MUST use the liniment before and after training.