MMA and Krav!

[Piece Of Garbage]

I have a buddy who is into Shotokan Karate and laughed when I told him I study Krav Maga. When asked why he said "Real Krav Maga is not taught in the U.S, much less to civilians" So I took him to one of my classes so he can watch and he told me "You're getting ripped up off, what their teaching you
is thai boxing and judo and calling it Krav Maga" and then he went on about
how he faught a guy who knows Krav Maga once and the man almost snapped his spine in half in less than a second but spared him. He made friends with
this guy and they had beers after and the guy turned out to be some elite
commando in the army in Israel and told him that he couldn't teach him what
he knows because citizens aren't supposed to know that stuff.

How true is this?

[Don]

How true is Which statement or Which part(s) of your post?

[Piece Of Garbage]

???

[mara_jade]

MMA and Krav are different. For one MMA has rules. In Krav, there ARE NO rules. It's not like you can 'tap' out if someone has you by the throat in the ring.

I know folks who train in both but saying Krav isn't taught in the U.S is ridiculous.

Of course there are moves that are different between the civilian and what Israel teaches. Don't forget in Israel, they're training to actually KILL if need be. In the U.S. we have limits on use of deadly force.

[Piece Of Garbage]

Originally Posted by mara_jade

MMA and Krav are different. For one MMA has rules. In Krav, there ARE NO rules. It's not like you can 'tap' out if someone has you by the throat in the ring.

I know folks who train in both but saying Krav isn't taught in the U.S is ridiculous.

Of course there are moves that are different between the civilian and what Israel teaches. Don't forget in Israel, they're training to actually KILL if need be. In the U.S. we have limits on use of deadly force.

Indeed sir. The only bone I have to pick with this is if you're in a self defense situation where someone is trying to kill you, shouldn't you kill them first?

I am aware of the laws in my area, it is a VERY slim slim tiny little scenario where I can get "excused" for killing someone. After all my name is piece of garbage and i think about all of these things.

ON a more serious note, I'm actually glad thats how it works because if we had people out here snapping eachothers necks and all that...that would suck :(

[KMMAN]

I know they teach how to use the bayonette in Israel. I have yet to learn that ;)

I believe the differences are weapons mainly like how to use your machine gun when out of rounds.

I call BS on all the "secret" stuff. We've already been through this with the Traditional Martial Arts.

[Don]

Originally Posted by Piece Of Garbage

I have a buddy who is into Shotokan Karate and laughed when I told him I study Krav Maga. When asked why he said "Real Krav Maga is not taught in the U.S, much less to civilians"

<<IME, False. Btw, ask your "friend" what is the definition of "Real Krav Maga"?>>

So I took him to one of my classes so he can watch and he told me "You're getting ripped up off, what their teaching you is thai boxing and judo and calling it Krav Maga"

<<No way of knowing unless we can see what is being taught and how. If it is a legit KM school, you should be able to verify lineage/credentials.>>

and then he went on about how he faught a guy who knows Krav Maga once and the man almost snapped his spine in half in less than a second but spared him.

<<Don't know for sure one way or another if such an event actually occurred BUT, if I had to guess, I'd call BS (there is another story that has been passed around the internet for some time EXACTLY like the one your friend told you). IF (BIG IF) your "friend" did indeed get into such a fight, your "friend" needs to either learn some or exercise better self-control/common sense/judgment.>>

He made friends with this guy and they had beers after and the guy turned out to be some elite commando in the army in Israel and told him that he couldn't teach him what he knows because citizens aren't supposed to know that stuff.

<<IME, partially true. There are a few differences here and there bewteen the civilian and LE/military KM curricula but Many/Most of the techniques are the same.>>

How true is this?

Embedded

[Piece Of Garbage]

Originally Posted by Don

Embedded

My buddy thinks real Krav is a bunch of moves that are supposed to kill you
right away.

And yes, he's a hot head and will die soon.

[catapult]

Originally Posted by Piece Of Garbage

My buddy thinks real Krav is a bunch of moves that are supposed to kill you
right away.

And yes, he's a hot head and will die soon.

"You must be so good... that you don't need to kill"
Imi Lichtenfeld, Krav Maga founder

[TacticalTimmy]

I think the reason so many TMA guys have problems with Krav Maga is some bad representation to make money, and a fundamental misunderstanding of the purpose of Krav. Why go for a black belt in competitive TKD and talk trash about Krav? Apples and oranges. Why train mma for the ring and assume everything/one is inferior because they cant stand up to you in the ring with your rules? Again, apples and oranges. Krav gets tested on sidewalks and in bars and restaurants across the world where the goal is not to knock your opponent out, to tap your opponent out or to outscore your opponent. Mma guys train to knock out and submit; Krav students train to avoid fights, and to survive them, not to stand in a ring and trade blows for minutes at a time with a scheduled break. If we get in a fight, my interest in your joints is to break one so I can get away. My interest in hitting you is mostly to,disrupt what youre trying to do so that I can get away. I will go for the eyes, throat, ears, groin, knees, I will bite, scratch, gouge, and I will use a weapon if I can get hold of one. I don't want to kill you, and I don't want to hurt you, I simply want to go home to/with my family. All other things are secondary to that goal.

[MDeaneUSCG]

Krav is primarily a combination of two things as far as I am aware. Principle, and mindset. You follow the principles of Krav, such as simultaneous attack and defense, training to defend from a position of disadvantage, and recognizing and responding to the primary and secondary threats. You apply these principles to the defenses, and the principles of the defenses (attacking the attack where it is weakest, RCAT for gun defense, etc.). Then, while gaining your understanding of these principles, and how the techniques utilize them, you are also building a survivor's mindset. You are forging a mental toughness by doing the stress and exhaustion drills. You are inoculating yourself to the stress you would feel in a violent encounter. You are learning to recognize an attack and to respond appropriately. You are becoming more aware of your surroundings, making you less of a target for a would be attacker. The truth about what Krav Maga is, is that Krav Maga is what happens in the first 2-5 seconds of your defenses. It really is all about the stuff going on in your trained head in that split second that you recognize what's happening, and can break out of the 'freeze' to respond with an appropriate defense. All the cool combatives we work don't mean jack if you can't make the initial defense.

Those in the traditional martial arts or mixed martial arts world do not see this though. What they see from a krav class, is a bunch of guys and girls doing some funky choke defense, or a defense against a knife, and then throwing the combatives from systems they train in, like muay thai. Then they comment that our combatives aren't as crisp as theirs, and that you are wasting your money. Same goes for the juijitsu guys that see us doing ground defenses.
The reason our combatives and 'ground game' isn't as good as those guys is simple. They ONLY train those things, and likely do it twice as much as most people do Krav. We aren't training to be able to go toe to toe with the muay thai master, or to wrestle around with the juijitsu blue belts. We are training to survive the unannounced assault on our life and well being.




Also, I can't totally verify this, but I'm guessing that a big difference of military oriented Krav is that they also include the offensive side of things. Stuff to be used when you sneak up on a sentry, or using your M4 to beat someone down as you come into a room. There is no reason that regular Joe Blow needs to know how to do these things to defend themselves.

[CelticKM]

+1 Great post