Is Rank Important to You?

[Chocolate Soldier]

KM extreme testing™ is not only a kind of rite of passage / additional learning experience but it also pushes the boundaries of what people might think are their personal limits in terms of endurance, stress, exhaustion, resilience - good to know what you are capable of withstanding...if the shizz hits maybe it will turn out to be 'easier' than the KM exam..

[resqr1]

A very wise and tough instructor once told me, "Belts only cover two inches of your ass. It's up to you to cover the rest."

We took tests of ability (no extra costs). No rank awarded. This gave us a sense of accomplishment, but NOBODY got the dreaded "I'm better than you because of this belt" syndrome. Not everybody falls victim to this syndrome but I have seen it and I'm sure others have too.

[Jrodf4]

This is a great thread.

I have been doing some sort of MMA for about 23years and have always shy'd away from the belt system/levels. In my humble opinion I think they should teach you every move in the art/style with do time of course when the instructors feel you are ready by observing you in class.

For example: All the instructors that have worked with Joe Blow in the last couple of months get together and figure out if the subject is worthy to go to the next level.

The instructors pay attention to technique and how serious the person takes the classes.

BUT lets not lose focus here guys it is a business and they have to do what they have to do.

[Chocolate Soldier]

Originally Posted by francokrav

what does everyone think of commando kravmaga or ikmf ?

CKM basic instructor training: 3 day seminar

IKMF basic instructor training: 180 hrs

[unstpabl1]

Yes some use belt testing as an ego stroke and finacially it helps alot. But the idea of testing is a way of pressure testing, even at its lowest level. Most are afraid to be judged in public. Standing up and performing in front of your peers and someone you respect is even harder for most. Thats why Ryan Seacrest has a career. He can stand up there and be himself or at least charming. He can perform LIVE under pressure. Testing and the advancement in rank in most systems is about Facing The Enemy and taking the responsibility for the rank. We forget that in our society, because we don't get who the real enemy is. Its the Fear inside ourselves and our own ego.

Martial arts and even their current offshoots RBSD systems as I've said in other posts are an attempt to organize chaos. Chaos by its very nature cannot be organized, but we can learn to control ourselves. Something I'm still trying to figure out at 51

Testing and rank requirements bring a "FOCUS" to the training and a opportunity to perform under the gun. A chance to step out front center stage and challenge yourself. This is something we're not forced to do much, even in our school years anymore. Hell' their not even keeping score in some kids sports now...another rant. Either way, its a rare thing in most adults lives. Yet the "WILL" and the ability to step out front and center stage is where the most lucrative successes come from

Ranking teaches us to demand a high standard for ourselves, to learn to compete again, which really diminishes for most after school,; to challenge ourselves; to meet the enemy( ourselves) and kick him in the balls and ultimitly to expose our weaknesses to ourselves, so that we may turn them into strengths.

This includes dealing with our egos and how we deal with people in lower ranks as well as higher. Look at you w/o partners, some are a pain in the ass and others we get so much from and good teachers get more from the teaching than students. Do we walk around with an over inflated ego after promotion? Treat subordinates like ****? Suck up to higher ups, just because. Close our minds and not willing to learn.....kinda sound like where you work? It should. Martial arts are applicable to how you live life or at least the stance you take to facing it. Why? Because, depending on your job, how many fights do you really get in? But you live and in a way fight for survival daily. Better yet, to live life successfully, you fight to be a better you on a daily basis. Most of us, if we're honest gave up that battle a long time ago.


Rank is important becauses it teaches us how to take responsibilty. Some fail miseribly, while others grow. The student gets to learn by being exposed to the good, the bad and the ugly. Its a lesson they see first hand when their time comes.

The gym/dojang is a place of self growth, whether it be TKD or Krav, because it forces us to expose weaknesses and develope strength. Its a place that teaches us that we are responsible for our lives. Testing and rank is part of the crucible for forging a stronger you. So don't dismiss the practice, see it as a real challenge that only the enlightened practioner gets

Be Well

mike

[NCSam160]

I don't know if it's considered "important" to me, as I really don't care what color belt I have, or what rank I am, but challenging myself is important. Having a goal in mind and reaching it helps me maintain focus and train hard for it.

So I would say no in the fact that rank doesn't matter, but yes as a training, motivation, and goal orientation. A training tool if you will.

[JamesH]

Speaking of Rank, If anyone out there is ready to test for their Brown Belt (Level 4) in Krav Maga, we are holding an open review and test February 18th and 19th in Broomfield, CO. All those ready AND their Instructors are invited to attend free of charge from Colorado Krav Maga. All attending Instructors with the proper rank will sit on the scoring board for all testers!

[AmericanFighter]

Originally Posted by jaspthecat

Personally No

In my teens I studies TKD for years and achieved 3rd KUP (IIRC) which was a red belt (one before black). Since coming back to MA I've not been bothered about grading and going up the belts.

Reason being is that I've seen and heard of far too many black belts getting their arses handed to them in real life scenarios, plus I believe too much emphasis is put on passing the grading rather then developing an all round fighter.

I've now studied Kravs for about a year and also study Muay Thai and have not taken the opportunity to grade (in Muay Thai we don't have a belt system).

Is rank and the belt system important to you and why?

although it is cool to be able to say something like I am a black belt really it doesnt mean a whole lot. last year I was doing TKD at my collage had just started there and I strated sparing. There was a Blue belt there which the belt progression was black brown blue. What they didnt know was I had already taken kickboxing and krate in the past. I compleatly owned this blue belt and he got really pissed off.

Belts and ranks dont mean a whole lot to me. The origans of martial arts had nothing to do with color belts. the deal was everyone was issued one belt that was white and they were never supose to wash it and only wear it when training so you could tell how skilled someone was by looking at how dirty their belt was. thats where the black belt comes from as some would train so much that their belts got so dirty they were black. Now belts are just used for marketing and money for belt tests. Now belts do hold some merit and most black belts are abosolutly phenomenal however I think that there should be a master and students that move to a differint class of students as their skills progress.

[kmisgood]

Originally Posted by unstpabl1

Testing to me always meant testing fees. You get to a point and all of a `sudden the instructor says test. Means he needs cash. In most systems ya ain't gonna fail.

What is the price for level 1 ?

[stuartf]

The legend about unwashed belts isn't true: http://glendoncaba.hubpages.com/hub/...n-Martial-Arts

[brewmasher]

Originally Posted by stuartf

The legend about unwashed belts isn't true: http://glendoncaba.hubpages.com/hub/...n-Martial-Arts

I know black belts that have washed their belt 100 times the first month they got it in order to make it look like they have been wearing it for many years. Some have even went so far as to make tiny razor blade cuts along the edge to promote fraying.

[MDeaneUSCG]

Being in the military, and being in a military family all my life, a rank or grade in anything to me, is seen as a checkpoint. When you move around every 2-4 years, you have to start over with new relationships, new friends, a new work schedule, etc. It's nice to know that I can take my KM certificate to the next place I train, and say "I don't need to start over in this". It isn't about a higher level of respect, or an ego boost. Obviously I'd still need to prove that I'm still up to par, but at least it gets my foot in the door of the advanced classes.

[Kiddon]

Is important to schools gain money !!!!!!! I made Karate ten years and I see some green belts better than brown belts, and I saw red belts better black belts !!! in Karate is just after first black belt you gonna learning Karate !!!! Krav Magá is not a sport, there are no rules, belts no mather for nothing , just for the pants, my opinion.

[CelticKM]

Hi Kiddon, does this mean you dont go to gradings yourself and are there a lot of people in your class who dont grade?

In my club there are some Master classes and Elite classes that only allow cerain grades to attend so maybe that is a small motivation to get to the 'P' levels.

[tzrider]

It is somewhat important to me as a matter of personal accomplishment and measuring my performance against some kind of a standard. I do realize that belt level doesn't guarantee a level of skill, but it is the gate to access higher levels and is a form of feedback on progress. I don't have a better way to assess my own capability than testing and the tests have certainly brought a sense of discovery, just from the business of getting through them.

That said, our school doesn't award physical belts and you can't tell what a person's rank is by looking at them. You can see how well an individual can execute a technique or defend himself in general, which may or may not correlate to belt level. Our higher ranking students do show more proficiency and economy of motion than lower ranking students, so there is at least some semblance of a correlation.

[stuartf]

My own rank is valuable to me as recognition/affirmation of what I've done, but I don't expect anyone else to care and I don't judge anyone else by their rank. I respect those who have achieved high ranks, but I also appreciate that krav allows us to question techniques and test their efficacy. I don't tell other students my rank unless asked, but I think my school is good about only giving rank when it's deserved, so it's pretty obvious when someone isn't a beginner.

[Kiddon]

krav Magá have no rules, is an art of personnal defense, for this reazon I think belts are not appropriate, but is my oppinion and worst nothing, when people like, and train a lot, people envolve, get better, I have no doubt, but I respect who are with the system, no problem at all.

[esquire32]

I have had large periods of time where I could care less about the rank, test grade, etc in Krav as well as other arts I've studied. There are several other students I have spoken with that have not tested at all stating the same thing and that for them is was about the training and not the level or some belt test. Of course, sometimes this is a fear of the "test" itself and sometimes a legitimate disinterest in some rank awarded , but rather a focus on training and progressing just for the sake of training in its own right. The way I look at it is not so much the fact that the test ( and rank award) certifies what I do or do not know, we all know that already internally without having to have someone else tell us. Rather, I view it as a bit of a right of passage, a hazing if you will. Then you can say "hey I went through this "test" and came out the other side".

[KevinMack]

I hate when people say Krav Maga has no rules. There are tons of rules in the system and in training.
"Dont get hurt"- IMI

defend-control and attack.

redirect the line of fire..control the weapon....attack...take away.

360- wrist to wrist-elbow bent-blade of the forearm-fwd pressure

we dont poke each other in the eyes..we pull our punches...we dont kick each other in the groins without protection,etc,etc,etc. This no rules cath phrase is annoying and just makes us sound like nerds. "Krav Maga will always beat an MMA guy cause MMA has rules and Krav has no rules" absurd.

[MDeaneUSCG]

Originally Posted by KevinMack

I hate when people say Krav Maga has no rules. There are tons of rules in the system and in training.
"Dont get hurt"- IMI

defend-control and attack.

redirect the line of fire..control the weapon....attack...take away.

360- wrist to wrist-elbow bent-blade of the forearm-fwd pressure

we dont poke each other in the eyes..we pull our punches...we dont kick each other in the groins without protection,etc,etc,etc. This no rules cath phrase is annoying and just makes us sound like nerds. "Krav Maga will always beat an MMA guy cause MMA has rules and Krav has no rules" absurd.

While I completely understand what you are getting at, to say that there are 'rules', at least from my perspective, implies that there are limitations on what the person can do in combat. Things like not hitting the back of the head, not gouging eyes, not kicking the groin are rules. These are hard trained into an MMA fighter, and they therefore would likely not even think about employing those taboo techniques in a real confrontation, because they don't train them. The 'rules' you posted are more the principles and training methods that are employed in krav, but do not attempt to limit our capability in a confrontation. The true rules that we must follow in Krav are actually laws governing the use of force in self defense.

So, to say that krav has no rules is in fact false, as we must conform to self defense law. Otherwise, we'd just end up killing or maiming anyone and everyone that ever attempted to lay hands on us, and a lot of people would go to jail.

[mara_jade]

Originally Posted by MDeaneUSCG

While I completely understand what you are getting at, to say that there are 'rules', at least from my perspective, implies that there are limitations on what the person can do in combat. Things like not hitting the back of the head, not gouging eyes, not kicking the groin are rules. These are hard trained into an MMA fighter, and they therefore would likely not even think about employing those taboo techniques in a real confrontation, because they don't train them. The 'rules' you posted are more the principles and training methods that are employed in krav, but do not attempt to limit our capability in a confrontation. The true rules that we must follow in Krav are actually laws governing the use of force in self defense.

So, to say that krav has no rules is in fact false, as we must conform to self defense law. Otherwise, we'd just end up killing or maiming anyone and everyone that ever attempted to lay hands on us, and a lot of people would go to jail.

That's my thinking too. I mean it drive me nuts when folks compare Krav to MMA. They're out to advance. We wanna get home to our families :)

[revobuzz]

For me - 100% unimportant. Never graded - never will. Happy as I am. I understand why others do place value on it though.

[CelticKM]

Hi revobuzz, from my post above I said

"that in my club there are some Master classes and Elite classes that only allow cerain grades to attend so maybe that is a small motivation to get to the 'P' levels."

Does your club not have these courses that only allow certain levels attend which may tempt you to grade?

How much are these gradings in the UK anyway do you know, never been myself?

[Kiddon]

Originally Posted by mara_jade

That's my thinking too. I mean it drive me nuts when folks compare Krav to MMA. They're out to advance. We wanna get home to our families :)

I agree, dont compare what have no comparasion, no rules is to do anything to survive, biting, spitting and even escape, but one thing very, very important in a conflict with a thug, and that element is SURPRISE, never show to your opponent that you know something about fight, your own position, your hands , your legs, you must show him fear , submission, and he cames to attack you , and before he gets you, you must attack with all power to the groin, eyes,throat,you can not give a second chance to him, he may be better than us on fight or have a knife or a gun in his pocket and you are death....

[KMyoshi]

I feel like rank in a system like Krav is only implemented for organization of what is being taught (which is probably the same as other systems/arts). I feel ranking is important but should not be the priority in your training. Level 5 is still built on the foundation that level 1 and previous levels before it taught (4 and below, etc.).

[Shipwreck]

I am only interested in gaining rank for the purpose of becoming an instructor sometime in the future. Past that we learn several higher belt techniques in our Level 1 course. Granted this is not an every day occurrence and we still do a lot of fundamentals but it helps break up the monotony of front kick/hammer fist.

Plus, like others have stated, a good instructor will teach you some stuff outside of your area so if that situation does occur you at least have a grasp on what to do.

[revobuzz]

My clubs pretty informal, so being allowed on courses is more on ability than grade. We are also a fairly new club so we don't have any G or E levels yet. Not sure how much they cost £20-30 probably?

[CelticKM]

Originally Posted by revobuzz

My clubs pretty informal, so being allowed on courses is more on ability than grade. We are also a fairly new club so we don't have any G or E levels yet. Not sure how much they cost £20-30 probably?

Yeah grading I discovered is around £40 and also these extra courses I spoke about also cost around £40 each and are usually on a certain topic:

https://www.institute-kravmaga.co.uk...a-masterclass/

Also we have these trips (lot more expensive) that if you hadn't graded you probably would either not be able to attend or be stuck with the beginner students when you get there:

http://krav-maga.com/training/tourin...ning-in-israel

Suppose it's a little incentive to move up through the grades...

[rickprado]

Had a prospective new student come in last week, the first thing that came out of his mouth was belts, grading, etc.....and how long it would take to progress.

I wanted to say he needed to learn to walk and chew gum without spitting first, but that may have been rude!

[stuartf]

Originally Posted by rickprado

Had a prospective new student come in last week, the first thing that came out of his mouth was belts, grading, etc.....and how long it would take to progress.

I wanted to say he needed to learn to walk and chew gum without spitting first, but that may have been rude!

I think that's actually a valid question if you're trying to make sure you're not signing up at a mcdojo (http://www.bullshido.org/McDojo).

[t-krav]

This has been my experience. Your mileage may vary.

In my school you cannot attend Level X class until you have passed the Level X-1 test. So in order for me to learn Level 4 techniques I had to first pass thru the ranks of 1,2 and 3. Sure, occasionally instructors will expand the normal curriculum and we have a few mixed level classes. But to train specifically on Level 4 techniques I had to put in the effort and pass all the previous tests.

So rank is important to me in that it allows me to expand my training. I still love taking "lower" classes than my rank, but my rank validated a certain level of proficiency and has earned me the right to safely train in its curriculum.

I also cross train in muay thai where there are no ranks. Everyone in a class trains the same technique being taught. Sometimes this is good, sometimes it doesn't work out so well. When starting off there isn't really a base of material to start from like there is in L1.

[rickprado]

Originally Posted by stuartf

I think that's actually a valid question if you're trying to make sure you're not signing up at a mcdojo (http://www.bullshido.org/McDojo).

If you look at it from that perspective, yes,it is a valid question, but I'm pretty good at feeling people out and can tell where he was headed and usually, that' not the first thing that comes up.