What is the true standard of KMG?

[Carl]

Hi guys,

I wanted to canvass opinion on this site I just found: http://whatiskravmaga.webs.com

In it the author states that some of the most well-known federations (e.g. KMG) are led by instructors (e.g. Yanilov) who make a lot of mistakes, and generally put profit before skill advancement. He describes KMG as teaching 'Fitness Krav Maga', with a 'Hit and Run' style'.

I'm a KMG student, and while I'm not particularly concerned as my instructor is excellent and I am only at their P1 level, I am interested in hearing your thoughts on the views expressed in this site, especially about KMG. What kind of reputation does KMG have? Do you agree with what he says about YOUR federation? Are his Hall of Famers justified, or just biased opinion? If a 'Hit and Run' style is undesirable, what other styles exist?

Thanks in advance for any replies

[KevinMack]

Without reading the site I can say that Eyal Yanilov is one the most knowledgable Krav Maga instructors in the world. He has trained in KM for over 30 years and one of Imi's top students who was put in charge of training instructors very early on. He was the secondary instructor if not the main instructor of many of the top names in KM. He is a living encyclopedia of Krav Maga knowledge. I had a list of the top Krav Maga instructors who I have always wanted to train with at least once in my life and over the past 4 years I have managed to scratch off most of them. Eyal was at the top of that list. So if you have the chance to train with him...go ahead and do it.

That being said...I don't know how he runs his business,personal affairs or his standards of instructor training these days.

Every one of the top instructors has their own ideas of how to spread KM and to teach it. There can be differences and still be valid.Krav Maga training. I will train with KMG guys,IKMF guys,Worlwide guys...anyone legit instructor I can learn from...even if they say the others are wrong. I love variety. There are different,vibrant brances of Imi's family. There is also rotten fruit so beware.

[KevinMack]

"We have seen Yanilov make some huge mistakes on knife and gun disarm techniques."

I love this quote...hahahha...who the hell are YOU? To think that someone has the audacity to say that Eyal is doing a KM technique wrong....hahhahahaa.
Some of the stuff on that site is true...some is wrong and some is just garbage.
I have been in the KM world long enough and have spoken with or read the words of a number of the top instructors many of who have been saying the same things for years so it has become easy to "hear the voices" behind such written language. People are not as anonymous as they think they are and they are never as clever or as sneaky as they think they being. This is in reference to more than just that site.

[CelticKM]

Firstly a caveat, I'm a member of KMG and also relatively new to KMG.

Before I joined up and was willing to spend my hard earned money on learning Krav I wanted to make sure that I was joining a reputable organization. Luckily for me there was a local KMG class nearby and after doing some basic research I can say that KMG are one of the more reputable organisations. This can easily be seen by the history some of their more senior members.

Eyal goes without saying but you also have people like Ilya Dunsky, former head Krav Maga Instructor of the IDF's Counterterrorist School and Shara Klarfeld former head of the IDF Krav Maga program. There are others but you get the general idea, these aren’t just people with fake IDF relationships.

It also goes without saying that these Organisations are mostly run as businesses and are not non-profit so if you go onto their sites they are promoting various products and training but this is a necessary requirement to survive going bankrupt and shouldn’t reflect badly on what they teach.

Even though I have outlined how I think KMG are very reputable above I wouldn’t (if I were you in the United States which I know a lot of you are from) be looking only for a KMG club. this is because as to begin with Eyal and Darren Levine were promoting Krav in the States via IKMF and now Darren with his own organisation so I guess these may be bigger organisations due to the head start on KMG over in the States and are just as reputable. KMG does seem to be bigger over here in Europe though.

I would recommend joining the ‘KMG Official Group’ Facebook group even for non-members of KMG as there are some good events people can attend. This is what has been going on in the past two weeks in Israel if you like reading Blogs and want a feel of what KMG’s training is like.

First week is Graduates week

http://www.institute-kravmaga.co.uk/kmg-graduate-camp-2012/

and second week is Experts week

http://www.institute-kravmaga.co.uk/kmg-expert-camp-2012/

I will conclude with something I think is key and that is one point that was made in the blogs. It was that the writer thought it was great that he was meeting people from all over the world and that they were all performing identical techniques as governed by the KMG curriculum. This really does show that the techniques are being passed all the way down from Eyal to the Graduates without dilution which I think is the key to learning Krav Maga from the experts IMHO. If the Graduates started saying I am being taught something different in my class I would be getting worried but that is not to say that KMG isn’t constantly changing also to pick up new and improved techniques.

Hope this helps give some more background for you and others

[stuartf]

Originally Posted by Carl

I wanted to canvass opinion on this site I just found: http://whatiskravmaga.webs.com

Originally Posted by Carl

Do you agree with what he says about YOUR federation?

I train with KMWW, here's what he says about it:

Darren Levine, 6th degree black belt and (claiming to be) recipient of a Founder’s Diploma from Krav Maga creator Imi Lichtenfeld, founded the company. The company certifies instructors and oversees quality control at hundreds of authorized Krav Maga Worldwide training centers in the United States, Canada, Japan, Mexico, and Europe.
The education level is good.
Style: The style can be described as rather usefull.The setup however is typically Mc Dojo, They dragged in useless technique to thicken the syllabus

I don't think I've heard of any of the legit orgs questioning the founder's diploma. I'm pretty sure I found a picture of it online once, but I can't seem to dig it up now. I didn't see any reason to doubt that it was real at the time.


I don't think my school is a mcdojo at all, but I can't really speak for every KMWW school (I'd suspect that they run the gamut, but I hope more are good than bad).


I'd love to know what techniques he considers useless and dragged in. I've done a little research into the difference in curriculum from org to org and never seen anything really glaring.

[Don]

I took a quick look and couldn't find anywhere on the website/blog where the author has any information about him/herself and what his/her qualifications are to be able to run his/her mouth.

Not only is he making sweeping generalizations based upon extremely limited information/data/experience (e.g. anyone else here think it would be reasonable or accurate to form an opinion about Bruce Lee and/or JKD - and then state that opinion as general truth - after only visiting 1 or 2 JKD schools and watching them train?) but he is also talking crap about people he's never even fricking met, much less trained with!

This author MAY have a few legitimate observations or opinions but IMO all that is covered up by the rest of the crap coming out of his mouth...

What a joke...

[unstpabl1]

Originally Posted by Don

I took a quick look and couldn't find anywhere on the website/blog where the author has any information about him/herself and what his/her qualifications are to be able to run his/her mouth.

Not only is he making sweeping generalizations based upon extremely limited information/data/experience (e.g. anyone else here think it would be reasonable or accurate to form an opinion about Bruce Lee and/or JKD - and then state that opinion as general truth - after only visiting 1 or 2 JKD schools and watching them train?) but he is also talking crap about people he's never even fricking met, much less trained with!

This author MAY have a few legitimate observations or opinions but IMO all that is covered up by the rest of the crap coming out of his mouth...

What a joke...

This is the problem with fb, forums, political ads etc who's behind it and what are they pushing agenda wise is often and easily overlooked by a blanket type statement and then people buy into it until sometimes its just too damn late. And if you simply question the statement they get angry and delete or unfriend simply because you are looking for the truth within

alaphebet soup organizations are always an offshoot of any system because usually a charismic and talented man comes along and teaches his princples and ideas to a group of people. we all tend to see things just enough differently and teach things a bit differently. Who's right? I doon't know because everything must evolve or grow else the system will wither. There will always be the conservative and the forward thinker. Nobody can teach what their teacher taught because who knows what innovations Imi might have made 30 years later

The truth is you don't train with an organization nor for the org. you train for yourself and with the instructors of your choice. Each is different in approach but krav is a princple based system and its up to you to make the princples work for you

[stuartf]

Yes, I found it quite telling that the anonymous author praises a particular org while finding fault with all the others, I wonder if he might actually be one of the people he lists in his hall of fame...

[Carl]

Thanks for your input. I too would like to hear more about the author's background, so I've left a comment on the site asking him to join us in this thread.

Hopefully we'll learn more about his views soon; in the meantime his latest post gives us a bit more insight into his reasoning: http://whatiskravmaga.webs.com/apps/...eal-krav-maga-

[catapult]

Not a real federation but earned being listed because of just one reason: Boaz Aviram. Loyal to the teachings of Imi Lichtenfeld.Mr. Aviram teaches Krav Maga in 20 hours, the way it was intended. No extra's, just Krav Maga, Pure Krav Maga.

The author seems to be from the "if it's not taught in IDF boot camp, it's not Krav" school. It's odd how he can have so much respect for the stuff Imi taught early in his career and so little respect for the stuff he taught later in his life.

[Don]

Originally Posted by Carl

Thanks for your input. I too would like to hear more about the author's background, so I've left a comment on the site asking him to join us in this thread.

Hopefully we'll learn more about his views soon; in the meantime his latest post gives us a bit more insight into his reasoning: http://whatiskravmaga.webs.com/apps/...eal-krav-maga-

Ok, man to man, IMO, you shouldn't have invited him here (yes, I saw your post on his blog).

1. At this moment, you have a whopping 4 posts here on this website and you inviting him here is almost like you wandering into someone else's picnic (people you don't know) and then calling for other strangers to come mingle as if you had organized the picnic to begin with. (IMO, borderline chutzpah, ESPECIALLY if you already know, or should have reasonably known, that the strangers you are inviting are likely to "clash" with the people at the picnic).

2. If I had a farm, I'd almost be willing to wager it that whoever this guy is, his agenda is already set in stone and his so-called mind is already made up.

3. IMO, you should have simply asked him to provide additional info and clear things up on HIS BLOG/WEBSITE. Anyone/everyone can "learn more about his views" over there too.

I may be wrong but I doubt anything productive or constructive will result if he were to make an appearance here. (yes my so-called mind is also closing fast too but that's because I really have no respect for that guy's approach or methods)

[catapult]

Originally Posted by Carl

in the meantime his latest post gives us a bit more insight into his reasoning:

If the events in that blog actually happened, they are just another straw man. The pluck doesn't work very well against a choke with a push against a wall? Well, duh! AFAIK, nobody teaches that. They teach you to rotate and break the choke with a downward elbow. Sheesh......

[Vinman]

Originally Posted by CelticKM

Firstly a caveat, I'm a member of KMG and also relatively new to KMG.

Before I joined up and was willing to spend my hard earned money on learning Krav I wanted to make sure that I was joining a reputable organization. Luckily for me there was a local KMG class nearby and after doing some basic research I can say that KMG are one of the more reputable organisations. This can easily be seen by the history some of their more senior members.

Eyal goes without saying but you also have people like Ilya Dunsky, former head Krav Maga Instructor of the IDF's Counterterrorist School and Shara Klarfeld former head of the IDF Krav Maga program. There are others but you get the general idea, these aren’t just people with fake IDF relationships.

It also goes without saying that these Organisations are mostly run as businesses and are not non-profit so if you go onto their sites they are promoting various products and training but this is a necessary requirement to survive going bankrupt and shouldn’t reflect badly on what they teach.

Even though I have outlined how I think KMG are very reputable above I wouldn’t (if I were you in the United States which I know a lot of you are from) be looking only for a KMG club. this is because as to begin with Eyal and Darren Levine were promoting Krav in the States via IKMF and now Darren with his own organisation so I guess these may be bigger organisations due to the head start on KMG over in the States and are just as reputable. KMG does seem to be bigger over here in Europe though.

I would recommend joining the ‘KMG Official Group’ Facebook group even for non-members of KMG as there are some good events people can attend. This is what has been going on in the past two weeks in Israel if you like reading Blogs and want a feel of what KMG’s training is like.

First week is Graduates week

http://www.institute-kravmaga.co.uk/kmg-graduate-camp-2012/

and second week is Experts week

http://www.institute-kravmaga.co.uk/kmg-expert-camp-2012/

I will conclude with something I think is key and that is one point that was made in the blogs. It was that the writer thought it was great that he was meeting people from all over the world and that they were all performing identical techniques as governed by the KMG curriculum. This really does show that the techniques are being passed all the way down from Eyal to the Graduates without dilution which I think is the key to learning Krav Maga from the experts IMHO. If the Graduates started saying I am being taught something different in my class I would be getting worried but that is not to say that KMG isn’t constantly changing also to pick up new and improved techniques.

Hope this helps give some more background for you and others

I've trained with both Eyal and Ilya- great instructors with perfect technique. 2 of the best in the business, along with Zeev Cohen

Overall, the very best instructor I've trained with is Nir Maman- the real deal !!!