Sparring

[kravjeff]

OK - Here's the thing ...

I think I'm progressing well in both Krav, and fight class. However, when it comes to sparring I feel sloppy. Technique seems to largely go out the window (for both myself and most of my partners) and it's almost like a barfight where fists are flyin' and we're hitting mostly gloves, with an occasional lucky shot; like we're going solely on instinct (though not the \"krav way\") and have no technique. Interestingly, I feel like I do much better (have cleaner technique) when I go against a better partner - I think that some of my best work (while that's not saying much) has been against my instructors. I feel more relaxed (maybe because I know they have better control), which helps tremendously. Can I blame it on \"lesser\" opponents? :wink:

So, I have a couple of questions.

What do you think about when you spar?

Are you concentrating on making defenses and looking for openings or just relying on your training to make your hands and feet \"do the right thing?\"

Do you consciously think about combinations (OK - He drops his right when he kicks to the leg, I think I'll try a number 4) ???

I love sparring, but when I leave feeling like I didn't perform it drives me nuts until I can get back out there (OK - I'm a bit competitive and maybe a bit hard on myself) !!!

Thanks for your input!

KJ

[dkst]

The thing I have noticed when I spar is I think too much. **** I missed that opening, why did I drop my guard, etc. I get the same feeling leaving class, some times I just don't like sparring because I take a beating. How ever, I really think that is what sparring is about. You are learning, in a street fight, you aren't going to be thinking about these things, they will come natural. How would you ever learn that you drop your guard when you kick, except for in sparring. Some times I go in thinking about one move, say kick to the liver when my partner leaves it open. Knowing I'm going to get hit, but learning when that type of move will be open is more important.

Here is what keeps me motiviated from all the ass kicking I get. You are fighting people that train in KM. If you get one or two good kicks and punches in, if you get them into knees or take them down, you have done that against a trained fighter, no matter what level. In a street fight, you will have an advantage (most of the time).

I don't know about you, but the first couple of sparring classes I felt lost, almost like I couldn't do anything I had been training. Now, while I still suck, I'm moving more, I'm landing more kicks and punches, I'm able to take a punch or kick better. Just by you noticing these things tells me you are improving, you are to hard on yourself.

[dkst]

One more thing, might be moving out to the Ft. Collins area. Do you know of any good schools that are close?

[G.V.]

I guess those feelings are universal, boys. My main problem is gas in the tank. When I'm fresh, I feel confident and do ok. But, as the hour progresses, I routinely drop my guard, too weak to mount a good attack...really get discouraged.

[dkst]

We did a drill:

Left Jab for 20 seconds, run to end of room do 10 pushups
Left hook for 20 seconds, run to end of room do 15 pushups
Left uppper cut 20 seconds, 20 pushups
right cross, 25 pushups
right hook, 30 pushups
right upper cut, 35 pushups

Not one person in the room could do all the pushups. By the way, that was the start of class. When you spar, if you aren't wiped out you're not trying. It is when you are tired, can't breathe, that a true warrior shows what he is all about. Most fights aren't going that long, but your advantage is knowing if it does you can push through it (what if there is more then one person you have to fight). It is not about winning your little 30 second or mintue sparring session, it is about being able to fight when you got nothing in the tank. Fighting fresh is easy, it is how you fight wiped out that is the true test.

Everyone drops their guard when they are tired, like I said before, knowing that is half the battle. Don't get discouraged, be pumped you realize your mistakes and improve on them. Hell, my last round a couple weeks ago was basically defense because I couldn't move my left arm. I know I can survive playing defense until there is an opening for a take down.

The upper level test end with sparring, but they bring in fresh fighters.

[taikei]

I had problems during spar where I was irritated by opponent's kicks and punches and mine not hitting anything.

Once my instructor dimmed the light during a fight. Wearing a head gear covering both cheeks with very bad peripheral vision (usually front kick low round kick are out of my vision), added by darkness was a total blackout. I gave up winning over opponent and started concentrating on basic combinations and focus on fewer objectives.
Actually this turned out to be my best spar I've done up to that point. Every attack I did prior to this were never combinations, nothing that I've done on focus mitt were utilized.

Could be a good idea to limit or change objectives depending situations. Having lot to do in 3 minutes is too much. If 3 spars then set 3 different objectives.

[ViCious]

do yourself a favor and pick a specific goal for the night... i want to hit them with my \"x\"... instead of trying to do \"too much,\" if your feeling overwelmed start smaller...

when i first started all i worked on was a simultaneous counter jab with my right inside defense... after a while i started picking off soooo many jabs because i ingrained into my muscle memory the movement. SO then i truely didn't have to think about that \"defense and counter.\" I would just react.

Now that would only 1 thing i would be truely reacting to. So i worked on another... then another... then another...

i feel very comfortable sparring... i don't mind getting hit, i treat it like a game of tag... where i get to kick the other guy in the groin lol

[Lazlo]

The key to becoming a good \"sparer\" is to spar often and well. \"Perfect practice makes perfect.\" If you spar once a week, then you will not get as comfortable as you would like to be or could be.
There are many ways to improve:
-Do it a lot.
-Keep your hands up, even when you are tired.
-Control pain. Don't show the othe guy/gal that he/she has injured you.
-Keep your chin down.
-Combos(2 is the minimum) or else it is just a stand-off. The first may not get in, but I bet you the fourth will.
-You can not hold these two thoughts in your head at the same time: attack and defend, so decide what it will be and commit to one and go, go, go.
-Move your head.
-Don't be a head hunter on every single dingle shot.
-Work on your cardio. The better cardio-ed guy will often take the day.
-Move. Move forward. Move sideways.
-Work up and down the body.
-Don't go toe-to-toe with a tank.
-Work technique with a small guy. Don't just a beat him up. How's that help?
-Agree with your partner how hard you will go? If he raises the ante, then raise it to or call him on it.
-Pick ONE and ONLY one technique to work that day regardless or how poorly or well or what any one says. Tell your instructor in advance.
-Fight southpaw the entire time. It does hurt for righties.
-Be confident in your gear: headgear(if you wear it), gloves/wraps, shin guards, CUP, mouth piece. Take care of your gear....and your gear will take care of you
-Don't get angry, control your emotions grasshopper. Get hits in. You get angry because you are being humiliated in front of everyone, not because it hurts(usually). You get angry and then you can't control your technique.
-Don't do hit for hit unless there is an opening. Just 'cause he hit your inner thigh, doesn't mean you should hit his inner thigh(unless it's open). I see this every time.
-Don't look where you are going to hit or kick. Focus on his solarplexus or face.
-Don't telegraph by lifting your head before a kick or a punch.
-A strong \"flinch\" before an actual punch will often freeze your oppornent. You must then go, go, go.
Lastly, cut your nails, brush your teeth, shower, wear clean workout clothes, and don't stink when you spar. Le pew? Moi?

[VT Hokie]

Lazlo, I think that's one of the best posts I've seen in a long time .........

Some real good points in there.

Dave

[kravjeff]

EXCELLENT!!!

I really appreciate everyone's input and look forward to more (and to sparring next time!!!)!

DKST: Ft. Collins isn't too far from where I train (Broomfield, CO). James Hiromasa (lead instructor) has been touted as one of the best instructors in the country and John (Whitman) has said in another post that he is one of the few black belts in the country; I'm proud to be under his expert tutelage and to call him a friend. His wife Shannon is also incredible, and there are other great instructors at our school as well. Here's the website:

www.coloradokravmaga.com

Hope to see you there!

[Krav4Life]

<----- 1st post.

I've lurked here for a little and figured I'd let you know that the Boulder facility is pretty good also. It's smaller than broomfield, however, when you register you get access to both facilities. I have my fight class in broomfield. The Krav Maga and conditioning classes in Boulder are great though. If you have any questions feel free to PM me.

[kravjeff]

\"... I'd let you know that the Boulder facility is pretty good also. It's smaller than broomfield, however, when you register you get access to both facilities. I have my fight class in broomfield. The Krav Maga and conditioning classes in Boulder are great though.\"

Agree - The schools are affiliated, and I believe share instructors though I've never trained at the Boulder location.

Thanks Krav4

DKST - Feel free to contact me directly as well

[KravMDjeff]

I would say that sparring is something that's very intuitive. Thinking on a high degree is great before AND after the fight, but not during. Go into a fight with a simple plan (I'm going to draw his hands down and then try to punch high, or I'm going to put a kick after every punch combo). Stick to that plan, and then just relax and do your best. Lots of newer people fail not because they drop their hands, but because they freak out about dropping their hands.

[Anonymous]

I agree, having one or two things to work on is better than too many. Also, do most (or all) of your thinking AFTER the sparring session. Think about what you did right, what went wrong, what you could have done better. Usually, right after class, your memory is still fresh and now that you are sitting on a bench instead of getting hit, you'll have some quiet time to think about your mistakes. You can then make plans for the next sparring session and decide on how you will rectify those mistakes.

Sparring with advanced teachers is awesome. They'll know how to make it tough, but don't just overwhelm you with punches, so you can really learn and get inspired. If you have a chance to do that, go for it whenever possible.

[Psyops]

Love the subject got get in it.


The whole idea of sparring after a test is ridiculous. It is merely a measurement of an individuals cardio endurance. It is also \"target practice\" for the fresh fighter. The \"macho factor\" is evident and well noted. But to suggest that carrying on in that manner is somehow going to make you a better fighter is stupid! If I am that exhausted in a fight. I will pick something up off the ground and use it. Also since during these sessions neither party is punching at 100% capacity, how realistic is the sparring? Perhaps you would not still be vertical if you were actually hit hard by the fresh individual. Perhaps the fresh individual would end up on his back in that situation if all parties were hitting @ 100%. So this is not \"real\". It is a great conditioning drill but thats about it.


Sparring for most of us is going to appear sloppy. Truthfully speaking street fights are sloppy and so in that regard the sparring is real. I believe that each person should spend time practicing what they are good at. These techniques, entrances, defenses, feints and combinations are more than likely what you will use in a real altercation. So work on those things. I believe that in order to truly understand your willingness to engage you have to spar @90%. You don't know dick until you get popped in the mouth and your head rings and you are a little woozy. Then you will understand. Until you've done this you are just playing around and working on conditioning. So this is the \"tae-bo\" reference that is often linked to Krav Maga. Cardio endurance means nothing if you get your ass handed to you. Conversely power means nothing if you don't have the willingness and ability to put yourself in harms way in order to land.



So cardio and power are important. They are not mutually exclusive. The challenge here is the false sense of security that many Kravists and MA practitioners gain from sparring. We get hit and it does not hurt us and we believe that in the street those same strikes would have a simillar effect. Of course this is false. Also you will see big guys chasing little guys around and little guys going toe to toe with big guys. These things are usually not duplicated in the street. So sparring should be done with reality in mind!

[Al]

I find sparring to be a frustrating test of my self control. I'm one of the larger guys at my school. Early on in level 3/4 and fight class, I had a couple of instances where some of my opponents complained about my hitting too hard during sparring. Now, as a result, I spend most of my time trying not to connect too hard, or to overwhelm smaller opponents with my reach. I've been tagged hard several times by some of the little guys that get frustrated by my size advantage, and I have to \"eat it\", rather than unload on them.
Sparring is training tool, and that is all it is. All out fighting is completely different. In real fights, I generally do the following; Hit first, clinch, take it to the ground where I use my size to control, then ground and pound. I don't get to do this in class. I think far too many people become over confident based on their training in a controled enviorment. There is a reason there are weight classes in boxing and the UFC. I can't tell you how many smaller people I spar with think they could handle me in a fight, and have no clue how much the larger students are holding back. ( I know someone will have to post a response pointing out that the wee folk are holding back too. But trust me, size makes a very big difference.)

[Psyops]

Exactly!


So many times during phase training I was cautioned about landing hard punches on smaller folks. Yet the smaller folks get all geeked up and excited and they throw hard at me. Or worse than that, they begin to stalk and stand in front of me and throw. That's what I mean with the false sense of security. Be careful though. Some small types on this forum are quite \"touchy\" about the subject of going toe to toe with much larger opponents.


:lol:

[Al]

Just out of self preservation, let me point out that James Hiromasa, my instructor, does not fall into the category of smaller guys that can't stand toe-to-toe with the larger guys. His skill level is exceptional, and he has a mean streak that makes Wolverine look like one of the Care Bears. There is an exception to every rule...

[Anonymous]

I think you just have to put this whole sparring thing into perspective. Of course it's not exactly the same as a real fight. It's just a training tool. One thing that could make sparring more interesting (and a bit more realistic, although not much) is to allow takedowns and let people continue fighting on the ground (we used to do that, but now there are often too many people and there's the fear of people smashing into each other). One could also fight without gloves sometimes, use punches on the ground (but still somewhat controlled).

Even with that though, it will never be 100% realistic. But no training ever is. We couldn't allow to bite each other, eye gouge, or pull each other's eyelids off in a fit of rage. People would spend more time in the hospital, than at the training center. So we can only try to instill in the students a willingness to keep on fighting, even if they are tired, even if they are hurting (although it's just sparring, you do get hit hard sometimes and feel like quitting).

I'm smaller than virtually every person in sparring class. I've gone \"toe to toe\" with some guys in class, who were more than twice my size. Does that mean I would do the same thing in a real situation? Hell no, I'd get outta there as soon as I could. Of course I know the big guys are holding back. I know I can hit them harder than I would hit a person my own size, but that only proves to me how difficult it is to fight them. I still go light to the head, but my hard body punches don't do anything to them, while their held back punches take a lot out of me.

I still feel that, as a big person, you sound more overconfident than anyone else when this subject is coming up (and other big people may be too). You are obviously certain that no small person could ever come even close to beating you in a street fight, so there is the possibility of letting your guard down and then ending up like that big guy, who got stabbed to death in the video Darren was showing once. As you have said, there are other things to factor in when it comes to a street altercation and the short little weakling suddenly pulling a knife or gun is one of them.

[G.V.]

Giantkiller could take both you big bitches on, at once.

But yes, 12-round sparring is pointless in terms of self defense training, methinks.

[G.V.]

Big guy meets smaller dude: http://youtube.com/watch?v=DYmTfuNGIYA

[Al]

GiantKiller-

Keep in mind that we \"Big Guys\" often carry knives and guns also!
I know it must seem that the larger people are over-confident in their fighting abilities, but I think this is often a coping mechinism developed by smaller people that allows them to continue with their training and ignore the law of physics. I saw this constantly when I studied Aikido. The core belief of that art is that by mastering the rhythm and timing of an opponents attack, you can control anyone of any size. I was constantly berated for using too much muscle and too little technique. When my fellow students or Sensei's could not execute a particular technique on me, it was always my fault for resisting too much. It was never the smaller guy's fault.
You know, as fast and as agile as a rabbit is, it will never take down a grizzley bear. What I love about Krav is that it DOESN'T teach you to stand in front of a larger opponent and get hit. It teaches you to respond quickly to an unprovoked attack, incapacitate your attacker, and get the hell out of there. I have never received any instruction that indicated I should ever stand and trade blows with my attacker. Given Krav training, I believe that a smaller person can equalize a larger person's advantage with some \"shock and awe\" style fighting. However, once the initial surprise has worn off, if you think you can stand and trade blows, you are in for a rude awakening. Sparring is a training tool, and a good one at that.

[Psyops]

Yes!

Al,

Thank you for pointing that out. I always have a gun on my person when I am in Las Vegas. This town is extremely violent and dangerous and I don't go anywhere without my DX.

James H. is the ****! I had him for phase training twice and the dude is awesome. Luckily most people with that kind of skill don't go out start trouble. Nevertheless Giantkiller makes good points. The thing that I try to impress upon all students is that standing and exchanging with another person regardless of size is simply not a good strategy. If there is a significant size difference, most of the time it will end poorly for the little guy.

[Psyops]

Oh....

GK,

I did not say that a little guy has no chance against me. I have specifically stated for the record that I know that there are smaller guys out there who can pound my brains in. This can't be debated. You refuse to acknowledge that when the size difference is great the smaller person will have to be exceptionally good to make this happen.


Sparring class is not indicative of what is real. That's all I am saying. I don't take anyone lightly. In fact if a little guy steps to me, I assume he must have a weapon or be trained because if he has neither, he is going to get his ass beaten.

Ai,

Would you take a person to the ground in the street?

[kravjeff]

Glad to see some relevant thoughts and not just a \"size matters\" pissing match ... To echo some thoughts:

Size does matter, and in a \"fair fight\" the big guy is going to \"win\" a high percentage of the time. However, as a smaller guy who used to mix it up on occasion (I was a bit of an idiot in my early 20's) I've held my own against some sizeable characters, and I was not trained at the time. Held my own in this situation means I traded punches/wrestled/whatever .. until it was broken up. Thankfully I never sustained any serious injuries, nor was I involved in any life threatening situations (that I'm aware of) ... I also saw a friend of mine who was about 6'4\" (we called him Thor) get knocked out - Yes, unconcious - by a kid smaller than me (I go 5'7\" on a good hair day and weigh about 160 wet) :wink: ... The amazing thing was I don't know how the guy even reached his chin! That was one of the fastest punches I've ever seen. But I digress ...

So - while the \"laws of physics\" may apply to fighting, as Psyops pointed out, they are not written in stone. As I think that most big guys would concede that if you take a shot to the eyes, followed up by a kick to the groin, a knee to the liver, a couple of knees to the grill, a kick to the face while you're bent over puking from the groin and liver shots, and then a stomp or two to the face because you're down now --- you've been beat. And maybe all by a small guy. 8)

One of the most important lessons I've learned is to never understimate your \"opponent,\" which is something I think many bigger guys do. I struggle because I'm confident in my training, but thanks to that training I try to assume that EVERYONE on the street is a better fighter than I am, and therefore (hopefully) they'll never get a chance to beat me.

Incidentally (to get back on subject) - I did a bunch of sparring tonight. Thanks to the great posts I felt much better about what I accomplished. Not to say I was great, but I think I went in, and left, with a different and better attitude about the whole thing, and probably learned more tonight that I ever had in a single \"session.\"

Thanks for all of the great input!

[Psyops]

Yes!

If a smaller person has the tenacity and the will to dominate then god help the bigger person who is depending merely on his size. This will not help him. However if a smaller person merely relies on tenacity and the never say die attitude and attempts to exchange with the bigger person. I would tell you more times than not it will end badly for the little guy.

This is my point. The kind of tenacity and will it takes to accomplish these things are very hard to duplicate in sparring. So keep that in mind. Sparring should be about skill and movement. It should be about putting combinations together. Hell working on a good 1,2, combination will make you far superior to 95% of the people walking around. So practice these things the tenacity is developed during aggression drills.

Great responses!

[Al]

Jeff-

You again make the mistake of thinking you know the mind set of a larger man. As much as I respect you as a training partner, you don't. Please do not assume that we are all overconfident and don't know what we are doing. To ask how we would react to getting hit multiple times by a skilled opponent is meaningless. Anyone can be beaten if taken by surprise. My point is that toe-to-toe sparring is not realistic. Ask James about this. Ask him if he hasn't asked the larger guys in class to reign back their size advantage in fight class.

[ViCious]

what i find interesting is that size only matters on a smaller scale.

or bob sapp wouldn't have an 8-2 mma record.

and cro cop knocked him out in 86 seconds in K1. cro crop is 230lb. sapp 350lb.

i also believe that if you include groundwork (in sparring) then size matters less...

i'm 179 lb.. there are guys up to 260 lb in our submission grappling class. Now your saying \"but your not punching then.\" True, but i don't know how punching would help since i don't lay on my back, i get all my subs from on top (knee on belly/mount).

Size obviously matters. The question is, what amount of skill overcomes a weight difference? does a year more experience overcome 20 lbs? or is it more like 15?

[Al]

Please don't tell me you consider 230 lb. Cro Cop a \"little man\"?

[ViCious]

compared to 350 lb... yes, i do.

[kravjeff]

\"You again make the mistake of thinking you know the mind set of a larger man. As much as I respect you as a training partner, you don't. Please do not assume that we are all overconfident and don't know what we are doing. To ask how we would react to getting hit multiple times by a skilled opponent is meaningless. Anyone can be beaten if taken by surprise. My point is that toe-to-toe sparring is not realistic. Ask James about this. Ask him if he hasn't asked the larger guys in class to reign back their size advantage in fight class.\"

AL -

First let me say that the respect is mutual, and I enjoy training with you, and everyone at our school. I was speaking in what I perceive as generalities, not in direct response to what you said, though your post did influence some of my points. I agree, and have learned from James that toe to toe sparring is unrealistic, and if I implied differently I apologize for the confusion. I don't think that because I may spar well against a larger opponent (which I don't think I did against you the other night during that awkward drill) that I could \"take them\" on the street, which is why my example of multiple attacks was completely unrelated to sparring - I didn't mean to blur the line between the two. Incidentally, there are 4-5 people in our school who frankly, I'm glad they don't go 100% while sparring (I'll have to thank James for the restraint :wink: ) - I don't mind getting my ass kicked now and again, but I'd never learn anything!!!

\"if a smaller person merely relies on tenacity and the never say die attitude and attempts to exchange with the bigger person. I would tell you more times than not it will end badly for the little guy.\"

Psyops -

I agree 100% - In the cases where I \"held my own\" that I mentioned in the other post, there was more than one occasion that I was lucky it was broken up when it was ... I shouldn't have left that out. I also agree that sparring is NOT a measure of self defense / street fighting, though I believe it is a valuable training tool.

KJ

[Esco]

yeah i notice the same thing. when i show up to class (kickboxing) i am usually pretty good doing the sparring holding my techniques, but my coach emphasizes body conditioning, me and my wife love it cuz dude works us half to death. he splits the class into 3 groups so at any given time you are either sparring, practicing technique (working the bags), or doing conditioning (running, jumping jacks, jump rope, speed bag, crunches, squats, push ups, etc.). we usually get in two full rotations and then some for every class. after a while i get tired, i tend to get sloppy with my sparring and techniques, dropping guard, and i'll be the first to tell you my technique (punches, follow through, pivots) they all go to sh!t at this point, making stupid mistakes in general. but yeah it must be a universal thing since i'm apparently not the only one.

[Anonymous]

Al,

When you spar against a guy your own size, do you hit him with 100% power? If yes, you're doing something wrong. Sparring is for learning, not for winning. So, while you are holding back when you're going against a little guy, you are also holding back going against a big one, making the sparring unrealistic in both cases.

I think overconfidence can happen for smaller as well as for larger people, but generally I would assume bigger guys would be more prone to it - if you are exceptionally big and everyone you see walking in the street is smaller than you, of course you are likely to think that you could easily defeat any of those guys. It would be a logical conclusion. And unless you are trained or have been in street fights, you may not consider the other factors such as possible weapons.

As a small person I know that most people I may have to fight will be bigger than me. I know this is a disadvantage. As a result, I'd be less likely to go out and look for trouble. Why fight a guy twice my size if I don't have to? I know it will be hard, if not impossible to beat him. The occassional sparring with some really large guys at the NTC would be unlikely to make me think otherwise.

In a way I think we all agree, size is a factor, but not the only one. The smaller person has a natural disadvantage, but he might overcome it with willpower, technique, the element of surprise, deploying a weapon or any combination of these things. All things equal, the big guy will have the edge. But all things are not always equal.

As for the Aikido teacher complaining about big guys not using technique or resisting too much, this reminds me of BJJ classes. In BJJ we are also told not to resist initially (this goes for all students, no matter their size), so that we can learn how to do the move correctly and when to use it in the fight. If your partner resists, there may be another move you should do instead of the one the teacher told you to practice. So it may become harder for you to learn the correct moves if you are constantly resisting. And good technique will only make things easier, even if you are so big that you feel you could pull off the move with pure strength alone.

I agree sparring is generally not very realistic when preparing for a street fight. However, a very small portion of a sparring session could occur during an altercation in the street. You may argue with a guy, he throws a punch, you see it, defend, counter, maybe he moves his head, punches back, you counter again... Basically a small exchange of punches at the end of which one person may emerge victorious, or at least you may have a chance to get away. So, while there may not be a lot of circling and jabbing and sizing each other up, there may be a brief flurry of punches and sparring can help to develop vision to see and counter those punches so you could then get the better of your opponent in that situation. So, yes, it's a useful training tool.

[kravjeff]

A few posts back, Psyops said:

\"Yet the smaller folks get all geeked up and excited and they throw hard at me. Or worse than that, they begin to stalk and stand in front of me and throw.\"

And Al said:

\"I know it must seem that the larger people are over-confident in their fighting abilities, but I think this is often a coping mechinism developed by smaller people that allows them to continue with their training and ignore the law of physics.\"

I think that maybe you \"big guys\" have us all wrong.

I for one, tend to \"stand and trade\" and sometimes \"stalk\" everyone I spar against. For me, this is not over-confidence in my ability, nor is it ego. It is solely confidence in my training partner - Trust that the guy that outweighs me by 75 lbs isn't going hit me with everything he's got. We're both holding back (not going 100%) which levels the playing field when there are rules.

I don't spar this way because I think I can \"take them\" but because I'm trying to improve my technique, the same way I would with someone my own size. If I throw too hard (which happens on occasion against large and small) it's lack of experience and control, which I'm getting better at. Never has it been because I'm sparring against someone larger, or out of anger.

Are we not supposed to \"trade\" with you because of your size? Are we to run, or try to diffuse the situation as we would in the street? Sincerely, what would you have us do differently, that would be beneficial to both partners? I think (and I know in my case) that your assumption that these things occur due to over-confidence or lack of respect is incorrect.

[Al]

First, let me apologize for having taken this thread from the topic of \"sparring\" to the topic of \"does size matter in sparring\". I think this subject has been beat to death before. Big guys will always see it one way, and smaller guys will see it another, and never the twain shall meet.
At the school I train at, I'm lucky enough to have the opportunity to train with some fairly large guys. We each have a feel for how hard the other guy can hit and adjust our training accordingly. Do we spar 100% full out with each other? Rarely. Do we train at 100% on punching and kicking drills? You bet! I train with two guys that punch so hard they have bruised me through a kick shield. We limit how hard we go when paired with smaller people. Do I think that smaller people are holding back? Some are, but I've sparred with guys who get frustrated, start swearing, and start swinging for the fences. I had a guy during a light sparring drill jump up in the air and do a \"Superman\" punch after the timer rang because he was frustrated.
I had another guy swing at me so hard he fell down when I ducked. These were all smaller guys. The larger folk that I train with seem to have more control over their sparring ability, and nothing to prove in sparring class. I find that smaller men have to try to prove something during sparring, where as it's a no win situation for a big guy if you get caught up in that bull**** competition attutide. I'm expected to be better that the smaller guy, but I'm also expected to show more control and not hurt him.

[G.V.]

Al, that may have something to do more with maturity level rather than size, no?

You don't think you're overgeneralizing this size thing, are ya? I'm 5'8\", I've sparred with dudes bigger with me, I've never done all that stuff you're talking about.

[Anonymous]

Neither have I, but I can see your frustration. However, there are bigger people, who do this kind of thing, too. I believe it's a personality thing, rather than a size thing. I've had some guys a lot bigger than me hit me extra hard, with the intend to hurt, rather than to learn (or because it was an accident). Some are jerks. Some are insecure and feel good about themselves, if they \"win\" the fight (which they don't really do, because they are hitting you hard and you go a lot lighter). Some may simply not like you and use the sparring as an oportunity to get in some cheap shots.

If this happens to me, as a small person, it causes a dilemma: I can hit harder, too, trying to hurt him back, but then the other guy will go harder and if he's bigger, in the end, I'll lose. As a bigger guy, you could just turn it up a notch, put him in his place. Also, if possible, try to avoid sparring with that person. If it's a really bad case, maybe talk to the teacher. Unless of course the guy trying to hurt you IS the teacher and then you are simply screwed.... :wink:

[Al]

Each of us, try as we might, carry our own baised opinions with us. For GiantKiller, being small in stature, but big in heart, she can probably site more \"Big guys have something to prove\" incidents than I can imagine. I on the other hand, being larger than many of my training partners, have experienced more \"Little guys with a chip on their shoulder\" type incidents. Neither of us is wrong, we just each exist in our seperate realities based on our real life experiences.
So, for the record, sparring is an excellent training device. I enjoy it greatly. It should be a fun learning experience that assists you in improving your skills. I know that that is what it is at my school.

[G.V.]

Originally Posted by \"Al\"

Neither of us is wrong, we just each exist in our seperate realities based on our real life experiences.

Alright dude, I could roll with that.

[kravjeff]

Again, I really appreciate all of the great feedback. However, I was really hoping for some direct responses to my last post.

Some of you big guys, apparently suprised that us smaller guys would actually \"trade\" with you during sparring, seem to have this \"how dare you\" attitude - How could we so bold, so stupid as to think we could stand with you? Again I'll state for the record that it has nothing to do with me, and everything to do with my partner - Respect and trust that he's not going to pummel me. I expect to get hit - I expect that it might hurt - I also trust that everyone I train with, large or small, is going to go 30, 50, 75% - Whatever is agreed upon. I don't expect anyone to go lighter than I do, but trust that they won't go harder.

So, regarding training and barring possibilities in a street fight, I'll ask again:

\"Are we not supposed to \"trade\" with you because of your size? Are we to run, or try to diffuse the situation as we would in the street? Sincerely, what would you have us do differently, that would be beneficial to both partners? I think (and I know in my case) that your assumption that these things occur due to over-confidence or lack of respect is incorrect.\"

p.s. Al - did you really mean it when you said \"I'm expected to be better that the smaller guy, but I'm also expected to show more control and not hurt him.\"??? Better? Really? I know you, though not well, but I can't help but think that you must've meant something else ... And for the record, this has nothing to do with me - I see you as a more experienced, more advanced student, and I am in no way implying that I am \"better\" than or equal to you in ablility.