Shocknife Use During Knife Seminar

[jaysjc]

Just wanted to say what a great learning experience this weekends Knife Seminar, led by Ev Pepper, was over at the Academy Of Self Defense.

Towards the end of the seminar, Kirian had a \"special\" surprise in store for us:Shocknives. The adrenaline dump was profound and occured quickly. When executing a \"slicing\" motion with the Shocknife, the shock that the knife delivered certainly gave us that \"pain element\" that is impossible to simulate with the rubber knives. It was a real eye opener for me and everyone who got the chance--or \"pleasure\" for those sadistic folks who enjoyed the \"shock\"--to work with the Shocknife. I hope we get the chance to work them into our training again!

Thanks to Ev Pepper for putting on such a great seminar, and to Kirian for introducing us to the Shocknife and for his unique perspective on how they can help with our overall training. Good stuff!!

- Jay

[Anonymous]

You guys got to use the Shocknife during your seminar? Cool. They had a seminar at the NTC, too, I don't think they got to use it. Let's get some of those San Jose people to drop of the knives at headquarters, so we can try them out! :D

[johnwhitman]

Come to Summer Camp! We'll be using Shocknives all Friday afternoon.

[XKirian]

The Shocknife was an excellent addition to our knife seminar this weekend.

I used them during a Dignitary Protection course for a Military Group recently along with Simunitions and the realism of the training scenarios was perfect. This group had only worked with \"Miles\" Gear in their previous training evolutions, had no previous Sim experience and had no idea what a \"Shocknife\" was :twisted:.

The pain penalty and real-time feedback associated with Sims and the Shocknife can not be beat when training practical scenarios in the tactical community. When dealing with someone shooting back at you and the adrenaline dump associated with a knife attack that you know could hurt physically vs. just hurting your ego... its a real paradigm shift.

So if it was good enough for them, I knew it would be good enough for the guys and gals at our school ;). When you look at people training with rubber, metal or \"marking blade\" training knives. the only adrenaline dump comes from the fears associated with the \"pejorative ego\" and performance anxiety, good but certainly not the same as the real fear of pain. During the Knife seminar when we went from running scenarios with the \"marking blades\" to the Shocknifes the focus, tactics, footwork, aggression.... every thing changed and was far more realistic.

I'm glad the students found it useful and educational, as we are always looking for ways to train as realistically as possible at our school as a good majority of our students come from the tactical community and need immediate options to real world problems.

Everyone looking to train with this level of realism should check out the Summer Camp, as when you combine the Shocknife experience, with the Adrenal Stress session training, with the firearms training with Uncle Scott and crew from ITTS and of course the phenomenal training staff at the NTC you are all going to have an unforgettable experience :).

Good times....good times.

Kirian

[Anonymous]

So, how much does the shock hurt? Does it feel similar to an actual cut in any way? My car keeps shocking me with static electricity at the most inopportune times, does it feel similar to that?

John, I bet the guys at the summer camp are all going to be relatively new, it just wouldn't be right to use them as guinea pigs for the Shocknife. Better to bring it to the new Level 5 class instead and play with it there.... :twisted: :D

[MaskedKat]

Originally Posted by \"johnwhitman\"

Come to Summer Camp! We'll be using Shocknives all Friday afternoon.

Who's going? I'm so envious... if I was closer, I'd consider it. Then again, it might just reveal what a candy-ass I truly am! :oops:

[XKirian]

The knife's shock is not incapcitating, i.e., one shock is not going to \"drop\" you, it's not as powerful as a Tazer, but it has a intensity switch from Low to Extreme with low being like a strong case of \"static electricity\" and extreme being far more intense.

As someone who has been cut, the extreme shock does indeed feel like a \"cut\" and the cleaner the \"cut\", i.e., slashing with pressure causes a far more effective shock then just touching the blade to the skin.

As with anything else, everyone's pain threshold is different. every one felt it, some people \"hated\" it i.e., it hurts like hell :twisted: . Others delt with it better and said it wasnt that bad. But to the person everybody recognized the incredible value of the real-time pain feedback and the adrenaline drop associated with said stimulus.

Hope that helps,

Kirian

[Anonymous]

What about a straight stab? Does that feel better or worse than the slash with the Shocknife? Slashes are generally less dangerous injuries than puncture wounds, aren't they? Would the Shocknife reflect that (hurt you more if you get caught with a hard straight stab)?

If we try these knives out at the the NTC, we better make sure to close all doors and soundproof the room, with all of those terrifying screams people might get the idea that we are operating a secret CIA torture chamber...

[Danigirl]

I took the knife seminar on the 17th by Ev Pepper. It was an excellent seminar. As a Police Officer, we all carry knives, but we have never been trained on how to use one. This course gave me a better understanding on how to use a knife, and the different types of knifes. I look forward to the next knife seminar.

Now as far a the Shock knifes. They are totally cool. We had it on the medium setting. You could feel a little shock, but it wasn't bad. i believe Kirian stated it feels like static electricity, that would be the best way to describe it. I took a slash to the ribs and it hurt more than the straight stab. I would have no problem trying it on the high setting, in fact i l look forward to it. :wink: It is nothing like being shocked by a tazer. I have been tazer, and that knocked me to the floor, and i would never be stupid enough to volunteer to do that again.

I would also like to thank Ev Pepper, Kirian and all of the other instructors at the Academy of Self Defense, in Santa Clara for all of the excellent training that we receive.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like the Shocknife is a really good learning tool. I'm kinda hoping we'll get some samples in before the Summer Camp and can try them out in class. You wouldn't want to try them out at the Summer Camp for the very first time, what if things go \"horribly wrong\", as they so often do on local TV?

[SexyBaldMan]

I have heard that the shockknife has limitations. For example, you can only slash to the limbs. Ie. arms and legs. Also, you cannot stab with the knife or it will break. Any truth in this? I thought I read the instructions of the shocknife and it even said only slash to the arms and legs and no stabbing.

[H2H]

we tried it last night at the NTC / level 5 class with Brent.
I think it's a great tool for training.

[Anonymous]

Yes, that was awesome!! Brent's my new hero (for doing the right thing and bringing the knives in!!). He even was so kind to put the shock level on \"high\", then press the sparkling knife against my leg and slice it across. :( Well, it's okay. I volunteered. 8) Hurt like hell. Very similar to being cut with an actual knife.

And those things look menacing. There are dozens of tiny sparks all around the blade and then there is that very loud electrical buzzing sound. Unfortunately, we didn't have much time and only two knives, so each person only got to defend five or six times against it. But it was a whole new training experience. All of a sudden, there was a real danger. Especially for the underhand stab, where the knife usually ends up much closer to your face and the blade might touch your shoulder. With the plastic knife, you don't care as much, but then suddenly with this thing....

Anyway, everyone really loved it and got very excited about it. There were so many people in class that they divided us into two groups, one of which was doing gun defenses outside. As soon as they saw the shocknife, no one cared about the gun defenses anymore, everyone just wanted to go inside and try out the new tool.

There were also a few other people, who let themselves be zapped, just to see what it feels like (all girls by the way, what does that say about our guys? 8) ).

So, I think that knife is an incredible new training tool. It's about as real as you can get to an actual knife, without risking serious injury. The more adventurous of our KM practitioners (and I would certainly count myself among them) might even want to use the knife to slice it across different parts of their body, then move in to punch a pad or the like, just to get used to feeling the pain and learning to push it aside to continue fighting anyway. A sort of Krav Maga extreme.

Anyway, I love everything about it but the price. Maybe we can make a deal with them. Let them use KM in their advertising, get free knives in return. Something like that. I bet it could all be worked out, or if not, maybe we can buy at least four or five of them and then pass them around during class.

Oh, and imagine knife fighting with those things. Talk about Krav Maga extreme! :D

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Giantkiller

[KravMDjeff]

They seemed to not work so well when someone was sweaty-i.e.-they shorted out and didn't deliver the shock upon contact. Also, I have questions about their durability.

Still, though, the psychological effect of being attacked by one has value-after the knife defenses are already strong. I got a chance to get shocked by them first in the lobby when they first came in, and then later during a level 4 class.

[Anonymous]

They should have some type of lifetime warranty, if they are going to charge over 1000$ for one knife. You wouldn't want to spend that money and have it break down the first day.

Don't know how well it works on sweaty arms/legs, haven't gotten to try it yet.

Is anyone going to the summer camp? I think they'll work with the knife there.

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Giantkiller