commando krav maga

[blokrocbet]

is there anyone taking this variation

[Simon]

If you use the search feature you will find many posts on this topic. I can tell you from what I have read in the forums it is not thought fondly of as legitimate Krav Maga, this is not my personal opinion as I have no direct knowledge of it but most of the KM forums seem pretty down on it.

[mara_jade]

Afternoon folks and welcome!

As Simon said, doing a search on commando krav maga should get you some hits. What I've seen as 'not fondly' is for a civil debate to turn into the 'my krav is better than your krav' and that's where it could get ugly. Sean does a great job of keeping conversations from turning that way as much as possible.

Please, don't feel you're in the wrong place. I just dunno how many responses you'll get to your question to be honest

By all means though, please feel free to hang around

[Vinman]

I personally have nothing against Moni or Commando Krav Maga

I've done some research, and learned that Moni trained with Imi, and (supposedly) even helped him decide what would be taught in KM. According to his site, he also saw battles with the Syrians.

Who am I to discredit the guy, and/or say that he's a liar ??

He obviously knows KM, and has added his own variations (judo) to suit his needs. Its funny, but do any of the instructors we saw in the "Human Weapon" actually teach pure KM, or do they all have their own variations/systems ??

My school also learns some variations as well with Mike Kanarek's HaganaH...which I think is some real good (and super practical) stuff

Isnt KM a mixture of many martial arts (boxing, Thai boxing, wrestling, karate), using only what works best on the street ??

I dont think anyone will watch a KM video and say "hey look, they stole that right cross from boxing"

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Vinman

I've done some research, and learned that Moni trained with Imi, and (supposedly) even helped him decide what would be taught in KM.

Iíve actually done some research as well and from what I have read on some other Israeli based Krav Maga sites is his background is fabricated. Supposedly his resume was a product of the marketing/publicity people he has working for him. Iíve never seen anything to substantiate any of the claims heís made regarding his Krav Maga training or being a student of Imis let alone working with him on the system.

As I said in my earlier comment I donít know him or his system but I can say that when I asked about him after the Human Weapon episode the basic response was he is considered a joke.

[Giant Killer]

Moni used the claim of having "co-founded" Krav Maga for a while, which is what I think got us all a bit irritated, as no one connected to KM seemed to have known him in that capacity. He has since dropped that claim, at least in advertisements or other articles I have read recently (and as far back as a year or more ago). Even if you read his forum now, he (or at least his students) do point out that CKM is in fact a different system and he only calls himself founder of Commando Krav Maga now, not general Krav Maga (which IS a specific system consisting of specific moves, not just a few things from other systems thrown together, although there have been influences).

Anyway, Moni is definitely known as an Israeli Judo champion and just has a different approach to things (for example in CKM they try to take the weapon first in gun defenses, concentrating on the takeaway rather than an immediate counter as we would do in general KM).

So, there are differences and you could just try out both systems to see which one best suits your needs. I like KM, but I guess I'm biased.

_________________
Giantkiller

[ninja]

Moni is not a Krav Maga instructor... He first claimed to have helped develop the system but was later exposed for the fraud he is. Moni studied Judo, and what you see has nothing to do with Krav Maga...

[resqr1]

As loose as marketing principles are, he probably just took some "liberties" with the words "trained Israeli Special Forces". A long time ago the system I trained with layed similar claims with the British SAS, Navy SEALS and American Special Forces. We had members of these orginizations seek training from us, but the perspective governments did not specifically request it. That being said I would like to invite all of you to come train with a world wide Special Forces trainer: ME :-) :-) :-) My point is a lot of super warriors train outside their perspective units. It doesn't make any of us trainers of military personnel unless we are requested by that entire entity. Marketing is just personal propaganda.

[Nixxon]

Is CKM the same as Kapap? (Sp?)

[Giant Killer]

No, but I think Moni and the Kapap guys (Avi Nardia) are friends.

_________________
Giantkiller

[blokrocbet]

im new to CKM so can anyone tell me the diffrence between KM and CKM?

[Vinman]

Originally Posted by blokrocbet

im new to CKM so can anyone tell me the diffrence between KM and CKM?

that all depends on who you ask.....

[Cottonwood-Combat]

Originally Posted by blokrocbet

im new to CKM so can anyone tell me the diffrence between KM and CKM?

From what I can tell, everythign you have read here is pretty accurate.

To make a long story short, I started teaching KM 7 years go this month. I closed my St. Louis based shop to return to school. Since then, I have decided to re-open a shop and have been 'shopping' myself, looking for which organization I want to work with. I looked at Mr. Aiziks group and have decided not to align with them. They are great people and Moni is very likeable. However, I did not see much in the way of KM in the curriculum. While there are some VERY effective skill sets in his system, it is not as close to KM as I would have liked. It's just too much like the traditional arts I trained in all of my childhood and much of my adult life as well. I debated canceling my slot for instrcutor certification in CKM because it is so hard to get an empty slot, but did so anyway.

The biggest difference I noted was that CKM uses a LOT of grappling, which makes sense given Moni's Kudokan Judo/Japanese JuJutsu background. However, I am just not looking for more of that. I like the direct simplicity of Krav Maga and as Moni himself says quite often "Simplicity is genius".

[BradM]

blokrocbet,
You mentioned you are new to CKM. Have you posted your question on the CKM forum? You may get a better perspective of what it is all about.

[JL]

OK
Here we go.....I have no axe to grind and will do no grand standing. I have several years of knowledge in several MA and RBSD's. In my opinion, what you're reading is pretty accurate. CKM is a system started by one guy..Moni Aizik, it uses more of a grapplers viewpoint on many techniques (wrist locks, finger locks, figure four, kimura etc.) Krav Maga is more of a striking art. And a good one at that. They also employ bursting and takeaway as well as some take aways with punishment. I like many of these and employ them in my training. There are however some useful things I found in CKm. When in an altercation KM uses a forward stance knife position hands up and fists. In CKM they use what they call the fence. it is an imaginary circle approx. three feet in diameter. In the fence position you put your hands up in a more passive way, open hands. When the attack escalates you work from the fence to defend. Some believe this technique can be used to talk the bad guy down, let him save face, tell him your not interested in fighting("I don't want to fight you man"). This then does two things, one it may just keep you safe by deescalation and two everyone around at the time can testify that YOU said " I don't want to fight you man" so if in fact the fight jumps off, and you summarliy kick the guys ass, the people in the crowd will back up your play when asked who tried to keep the fight from happening(who was the aggressor) the aggressor is the one that usually gets hooked up(cuffed). So while I personally enjoy KM techniques by and large, there are some things in CKM that could be used to more complete training for street defense. IMHO no politics no axe. JL

[Ryan]

For what it's worth, the "fence" was a term and position made famous by Geoff Thompson, and many of the tactics described by JL are taught in many systems, but only a few KM instructors, that I know of, employ them.

[JL]

Ryan is spot on. Geoff Thompson did indeed bring the term and technique into the fray. He is also correct in saying that some and not all KM instructors employ this defensive position.

I guess what I was trying to interject is that while some of the statements made by Moni Aizik and CKM are outside of the scope of what has been proved to be true, I still will distill any type of RBSD to find something of use for myself and my students.(i.e. Geoff Thompson's fence technique). I will always back the Associations that put Krav on the map in the US. AS far as North America is concerned it's KMAA.

I will also submit that not all is well in Toronto (CKM) Many of the higher level instructors are at odds with and are resigning from Moni and CKM, over some of the techniques and by some of the unmet promises that were apparently made. I guess noone is exempt from the rath of an unhappy instructor.

I respect all the instructors on this forum or any other. They bring this stuff to the masses and give their time and energy to help defend those that could not defend themselves. I suppose in that vein I will pat myself on the back as well. I just want to send my students home with pressure tested effective techniques. NBothing more nothing less. JL

[blokrocbet]

i heard that about the at odds part. My instructor and moni had a falling out

[leejam99]

what's their instructor training/qualification?

[JL]

I talked to a guy here in Canada who went through the Instructor Certification. He said that to qualify you need to have a Brown Belt in your given MA or 4 yrs of teaching in MA. The thing lasts for 5 days, they go for 12 hrs. a day. Pressure testing is every day (three on one with weapons) final day is for testing upper level certifiers must Pressure test for no less than 12 minutes, display excellent ability on technique. He also said that about 30-40% do not get certified (fail).

All that being said, he does not currently teach CKM. He told me that the infrastructure just isn't in place at Commando Krav Maga to go anywhere teaching it. He also said that some of the instructors are leaving due to contractual deviation by CKM(breach of contract). So, he is now back to teaching the KM techniques mixed with a little MMA to make his student retention levels higher. I personally have no knowledge of any of this, I am simply restating something told to me by someone who was there. JL

[Cottonwood-Combat]

I cannot personally attest to any of the information in the link below, but it is apparently a legitimate posting of one CKM Instructor's issues re: a breach of contract or more than one. I've checked with some people in-the-know and they could not defintively confirm it either, but said they had heard via other parties it was correct and accurate.

http://commandokravmaga.com.au/forum...topic=15.msg24

[Vinman]

Originally Posted by Cottonwood-Combat

I cannot personally attest to any of the information in the link below, but it is apparently a legitimate posting of one CKM Instructor's issues re: a breach of contract or more than one. I've checked with some people in-the-know and they could not defintively confirm it either, but said they had heard via other parties it was correct and accurate.

http://commandokravmaga.com.au/forum...topic=15.msg24

the only word that comes to mind is "****storm"......

[Happy Dragon]

Originally Posted by Cottonwood-Combat

I cannot personally attest to any of the information in the link below, but it is apparently a legitimate posting of one CKM Instructor's issues re: a breach of contract or more than one. I've checked with some people in-the-know and they could not defintively confirm it either, but said they had heard via other parties it was correct and accurate.

http://commandokravmaga.com.au/forum...topic=15.msg24

I can attest to it. I'm the guy who wrote it, Will McLay.

It was about time somebody published the truth. Since my story came to light, others have come forward with questions and concerns that echo my issues.

The quoted link is just the complaint at the Better Business Bureau, read my "cautionary tale" here on the home page: http://commandokravmaga.com.au/

I'd be happy to answer any questions, either here, or on the forum I've setup, if you wish to discuss it.

With respect,
Happy Dragon

[Cottonwood-Combat]

Yeah, maybe there's a storm of sorts- I just can't afford my new business to get wrapped up in anything. It's just too early, so I walked away. Maybe some day I will try again. Like I mentioned before, Mr. Aiziks has some good stuff in his system. My 13 year old son could even make some of the skill sets work against me at nearly full speed/strength after only about 10-15 of practice.

From what I gather, there are a lot schools doing very well with CKM. In time, I might be one of them.... only as a supplemental program though.

[Liquid Rockface]

Cottonwood, is the gobbledygook you wrote at the top of your logo actually supposed to mean something? Or did you just write some Hebrew there so that it looks "cool"? I read Hebrew and it just looks amusing to me, something like if you had to write "weroidskfjsklfjw"

[Vinman]

Originally Posted by Vinman

the only word that comes to mind is "****storm"......

the forum wont let me write "s hitstorm" ??

[mara_jade]

Nothing more than word filtering

[vwr32]

Originally Posted by Vinman

the forum wont let me write "s hitstorm" ??

That's how THE MAN keeps us down!

[Cottonwood-Combat]

Originally Posted by Liquid Rockface

Cottonwood, is the gobbledygook you wrote at the top of your logo actually supposed to mean something? Or did you just write some Hebrew there so that it looks "cool"? I read Hebrew and it just looks amusing to me, something like if you had to write "weroidskfjsklfjw"

Actually, I used a translation program and typed in the name of our shop. This is the Hebrew it gave me. Others have said it is accurate accept for a space that shouldn't have been there.

[Happy Dragon]

Originally Posted by Cottonwood-Combat

Yeah, maybe there's a storm of sorts- Mr. Aiziks has some good stuff in his system. My 13 year old son could even make some of the skill sets work against me at nearly full speed/strength after only about 10-15 of practice.

I was a level 2 CKM instructor, and although I have problems with the business and the politics of the organization, I'm pretty happy with most of the techniques themselves - not surprising since that is where I started.

I'm not really familiar with your system, although I've read and watched different material to try to get an understanding. One thing I see as an obvious difference is the emphasis on taking away a weapon before striking an attacker in CKM. I don't know if the picture on the top of the forum particularly demonstrates a gun disarm, (many of the CKM 'action shots' don't actually demonstrate current techniques), but using an elbow strike before actually taking the gun out of the attacker's hand would not fit the strategy.

[mara_jade]

That is a gun disarm from what I recall (say gun from behind touching) and the elbow strike is a distraction. More counters are followed to 'loosen up' the attacker before disarming the gun.

[Happy Dragon]

Oh yeah! I personally love elbow strikes...

however, my point was that CKM doesn't use any distraction, or what I'd call softening techniques, before the business of getting the weapon away is dealt with.

[Oneness]

....Wait.














Ok i'm all set have my diet coke and popcorn! Let the posting begin.

[vwr32]

Originally Posted by Oneness

:

Ok i'm all set have my diet coke and popcorn! Let the posting begin.

It's a rerun... I've seen this one too many times.

[Simon]

I understand that in Moni’s previous style “Combat Ninjitsu” students were allowed to use the smoke screen defense before doing the gun disarms. Is this true?

[BradM]

Originally Posted by Simon

I understand that in Moniís previous style ìCombat Ninjitsuî students were allowed to use the smoke screen defense before doing the gun disarms. Is this true?

An idiot question deserves an idiot answer. Since I'm no idiot, I'm not qualified to answer. Maybe some other idiot can answer it. How's that for a smart ass answer?

[Vinman]

so, Brad must be an instructor of CKM....

[Simon]

You also might want to read this thread

http://kmforum.kravmaga.com/showthread.php?t=2666

Some interesting things posted

[vwr32]

um, I don't think brad is a ckm instructor...

[JL]

I just spoke with a few friends in Europe, according to them they have no idea who Moni Aizik is or what he teaches. These guys are the real deal, some you know of and some you don't. I have a good friend in ther UK that was a high level instructor for Moni. He has resigned his post and will not teach CKM in any form. He went through the cost and training to reach the highest level Moni has to date. He stsarted to question the techniques a while back and
was pissed when he got nothing for answers. Bottom line, do your research find people in the know and train within KMAA or IKMwhatever. ONe of the most important questions this guy had was 'Why is there no striking of pre-emptive strikes in the early stages of CKM. _no answer....He believes it doesn't exist because Moni isn't proficient at striking therefore it gets second billing. The future of CKM could be numbered. IMHO JL