Hwa Rang Do "diss" on KM

[thedaver]

Has anyone seen this link:

http://www.martialartsinlosangeles.com/kravmaga/

Interesting marketing ploy to counter potential KM students. Seems far too complicated to me :)

[Pugnax88]

Looks too flashy, and seems like he's trying to build off the success of Krav with how he's comparing his style to whats used in Krav.

[saruotoko]

Originally Posted by thedaver

Has anyone seen this link:

http://www.martialartsinlosangeles.com/kravmaga/

Interesting marketing ploy to counter potential KM students. Seems far too complicated to me :)

There's certainly nothing wrong with Hwa Rang Do (sp?) as a quality Martial Art. But I think the 'too complicated to me' part you're talking about Daver, is the difference between a Martial Art and a Fighting System (where I IMHO think Krav lies).

I just pinged a co-worker who studies a TMA that has similar technique, and says everything she saw in the video was sound. Coming from a TMA myself, I agree. But to get to THAT level of proficiency quickly....I honestly can't see that happening for a lot of people. I'd take any of our L2 students over any other TMA's students at the same level in terms of time-committment.

Happily there's room for both disciplines in this city. I wish them every success. They are our cousins in helping people defend themselves. I DO have to give them props for doing a comparison to Krav. I think it was the first time I've ever seen that.

Think people are noticing the good we're doing for (and with) our students? :)



Mario

[Psyops]

Weird,

We should send them a letter and thank them for mentioning the system in their ad. Why even bring up Krav Maga? Hwa Rang Do or whatever it is should be able to stand on its own merit. Just another system trying to eat off our plate. Come on now Traditional Martial Arts, you can do better than that.

[thedaver]

And, they include a lengthy description of KM and it's origins on their link! The Hwa Rang Do studio is by the way very close to the NTC(Pico and Sawtelle) -

[KMCat]

I'm not sure about this guy. I watched the video and some of the "example attackers" looked like they were really getting hurt.

There was the one guy that looked like he had a some hurtful joint locks on and was grimacing and trying to tap out against the floor.

[saruotoko]

Originally Posted by KMCat

I'm not sure about this guy. I watched the video and some of the "example attackers" looked like they were really getting hurt.

There was the one guy that looked like he had a some hurtful joint locks on and was grimacing and trying to tap out against the floor.

Ever seen any of our OWN "Sample Attackers" (i.e. KM Assistant Instructors)? We kinda DO get hurt on occasion, too! ;)




The Occasionally "Dinged" Mario

[MadDogMean]

I know that every martial arts has it's own merits, but after comparing it to KM it opens the door to criticism. I saw at least two moves where the attacker was left with a weapon in hand where the attacker can still deliver lethal strikes. The defender went for a take down at the ankles while the attacker can come down hard with the stick he was wielding. The defender also went for a rear choke while the attacker still held the knife. Personally, I wouldn't trust my life with these moves.

[blokrocbet]

WOW whats up with all the krav maga plugs?

[leejam99]

here is a simple test. take 2 people that have never taken any type of self defense or martial art. put one in this system and the other in KM. have them learn 1 technique for 1 hours...let say a defense from a big looping punch which would be a common attack in the street.

in KM, we would teach you 360 with a simultaneous counter attack(punch to the face). A very instinctive move (your hand coming out to block). HRD would teach you some type of movement with a joint lock. Completely non instinctive move.

After 1 hours and maybe after they are physically exhausted and under stress, attack them full speed and power with the same punch and see who can perform their technique. I would bet on KM.

Why? a normal person without extensive training will most likely not be able to perform a complicated join manipulation during stress. I would even go as far as to say even a person WITH extensive training will not be able to. I don't know if anybody here has ever been in a real fight but...your brain really isn't functioning 100% when your under extreme stress and adrenaline kicks in.

Its just like the people that practice Kali and Escrima. in the system, there are a lot traping, redirection, fancy movements. Now, go watch the Dog Brothers spar 100%. you will rarely ever see any of the fancy stuff.


fancy shamancy does not work under stress for most people. Krav Maga was created for the majority.

BTW, this website even states in BOLD, "KRAV MAGA OFFERS THE QUICK FIX...". uh yeah! i want to stop my attacker/threat quick as i can and go home!

[T.J.]

WTF?!?!?!? That was one of the weirdest advertisemnts I've ever seen. I don't even know how to respond.

[blokrocbet]

i dont see how this could work with mulitple attackers

[Kirk]

looks like it has some good, but a lot I don't like. From what I recall from the video their was a straight stab with a knife, when it was defensed he let go of control of weapon. I would never want to give up control. I didn't like a lot of the ground and leg attacks, I wouldn't feel comfortable with diving my head into my attacker.

Just a couple points I saw with watching the vid once through.

[MadDogMean]

I saw the same thing.

[thedaver]

I've never understood how all the trapping stuff etc would work in a fast and furious encounter, especially against multiple attackers. It looks cool but the effectiveness escapes me.

[russell]

look close at the 2.05 point he(the master) is droping down to grab the leg while the man still has the bat, i would swing the bat down and break his back

im not one to disrespect any style or art but i say to each his own and good luck in what ever you do, but i'm sticking with krav

besides i dont want to change my gamer tag from kravdude to hwarangdo dude

[Kirk]

Russell send me a friends invite: SERious02 (ps3 tag) Not that I am on a lot these days.

[nate]

I think Mario and James hit the nail on the head...

I love that TMAs have to compare to Krav or talk smack about each other as being a more effective fighting style. Every person I've ever met who studies any kind of self defense form believes what they study is the best, but now starting to see schools try to prove their forms more effective than Krav is just ridiculous, like arguing on the grade school playground on who's got the best dad.

And regarding that video, the most glaring thing I saw - anytime you drop down to go for someone's legs, you're lookin at knees, headstomps, a visit to your teeth by steel toed boots ... doesn't make much sense.

[EVO8]

That is a weird advertisement. I browsed the website further and noticed that they compare Hwa Rang Do to a bunch of other martial arts as well, not just Krav. here's what they write about BJJ:

"Ask yourself this... In a Fight, Do You Really Want to Go to the Ground, Scrape Your Elbows & Mess Up Your Clothes?
What If You Have to Face Multiple Attackers?"

Haha, i like the part about messing up your clothes.

I actually live close to the West LA school. My buddy attended for about a year. He said the instructors were cool, but the stuff he was learning wasn't anything mind blowing. Lots of kicking like Tae Kwon Do. They do teach ground techniques, but they don't practice submissions during sparring, just positioning. After he got a few belts be quit because he didn't want to start learning jump kicks. He said he was too old for that.

[MadDogMean]

"Ask yourself this... Do you really want to keep the attacker armed during a fight?"

[CLFMak]

Originally Posted by nate

And regarding that video, the most glaring thing I saw - anytime you drop down to go for someone's legs, you're lookin at knees, headstomps, a visit to your teeth by steel toed boots ... doesn't make much sense.

Not necessarily- a proper takedown doesn't invite all of this mayhem to the head and it is extremely brief. However, the Hwa Rang Do varieties don't necessarily do this so well.

[nate]

Originally Posted by CLFMak

Not necessarily- a proper takedown doesn't invite all of this mayhem to the head and it is extremely brief. However, the Hwa Rang Do varieties don't necessarily do this so well.

Yeah don't get me wrong - I'm not calling out ALL takedown techniques.

I just think when someone is holding a weapon right over your head and you bend down to pick up their ankle (without shooting in / taking them off balance), it's probably not the best idea. But hey, I'm not a HRD master, so what do I know? Maybe that technique is amazing.

[JL]

I dunno people!!!!! I think this is a huge success for the Krav community as a whole. We should be grateful to the folks at Hwa Rand DO for such a informative and insightful advertisement. If you continue to read down the list below the portion where they start to describe KM, you couldn't ask for a better endorsement. In fact, throughout the descrptions of the techniques used on the video, you see as in Krav Maga. Remeber that the biggest form of flattery is for someone to compare themselves to you. I hope that more TMA's realise that Krav Maga has a place at the table in RBSD and other applications.(military, LEO's etc.)

As for the video, we all can pick out some things that don't look quite up to snuff, but then so could they if they had a video that could be played back and picked apart. So let's not get in the habit of dispelling all that they show. Some things I liked, and some I did not like. But that is the way of most systems. I'll just stick with Krav and hppe that someday all the others will join us in the Krav world!!! We should embrace them each and every one;)

JL

[JL]

sorry about the crappy spelling....fingers too big for keys!!! damn machine!!!!!

[JL]

I know Sean, but it is good for the heart to laugh often and loudly. SO maybe that is their intent. But they give a huge reason why their students should look to KM as a point for realistic training. And for that I say to them Thank you Hwa Rang DO for the endorsement!

[Don]

Originally Posted by CJs Dad

OK, as soon as I stop laughing

Stop Laughing, you're making me laugh too!

[Psyops]

Yup,

That's why I said it was all too weird. It does not make any sense from a business stand point. "Krav Maga is a great system and we are just like them, sort of". WTF??? Weird!

[Don]

Originally Posted by those crazy Hwa Rang Do guys

"Krav Maga is a great system and we are just like them only without the fluff, unrealistic training, and fancy, impractical techniques...".

Fixed it for ya... lol j/k

[thedaver]

Hard to get such free advertising! Maybe a "thank you" note is in order?!?!

[CLFMak]

I wonder if this is the same hwa rang do that's in the Michael Echanis books from back in the day. They had some horrible techniques, especially regarding knife fighting.

For some serious comedy, look at the second picture in this article:
http://www.hwarangdo.com/Magazines/knife.htm

[BradM]

Some of the techniques might look pretty cool in a Jet Li or Jackie Chan movie. Heh, heh.

[nate]

Originally Posted by CLFMak

I wonder if this is the same hwa rang do that's in the Michael Echanis books from back in the day. They had some horrible techniques, especially regarding knife fighting.

For some serious comedy, look at the second picture in this article:
http://www.hwarangdo.com/Magazines/knife.htm

That's pretty amazing. When I want to start learning flying kick knife fighting, I know where to go now.

[unstpabl1]

Originally Posted by CJs Dad

Why did I not check this thread earlier? That was some funny stuff!!!

Hey Bud

Kinkos visit, saw thread. Dr. Lee is one of the highest ranking Hapkido guys in the world. Thats like back in the day. Main school is in Downey. Lotta techs in the sysem, like the 4000 range. Comprehensive with healing or basic OMD and son meditation or zen.


I went to check the WLA school out a few years ago. I was ushered into an office and offered a free class. Was not allowed to watch class. Only school I've been to in LA that wouldn't let you watch. I truthfully was really pissed and felt like I was being treated like a child molester.


Hate that kind of adveertising, but that school is so close to your school its obvious your drawing from the same client pool, especially since krav started the kids program. Apples and oranges though

Be well buddy. Miss ya


Mike

[Don]

Originally Posted by CJs Dad

Well, I could show you, but then I would have to kill you.

Inquiring minds wanna know How - flying knife kick, pocket stick quart of blood technique, flying monkey kick... - How?!