sleeve grabs

[michaelmall]

Well some of the some the guys and I where messing around
and one of grabbed the sleeve of my jacket.I soon found out this
kind of deletes your punching attacks.Anybody have anything
on this.

[MariusNC]

Maybe the wrist-release would work here? A quick, jerking motion to break the hold. Or maybe you can wrap your own arm around your attacker's and lock it. And use kicks or knees, maybe headbutts.

[mara_jade]

Wrapping your arm around is generally NOT a good idea. You wanna keep the control, not the give an attacker the chance to get it back. Now you're as stuck to him as he is to you.

Hmm- wonder if you could just get your arm out of the jacket while doing combatives? Need to ask in class next time and try that at home - thanks for the scenario

[stevetuna]

I think that the answer depends upon the context of the grab. Is it a goofy drunken friend who's simply acting up or is it an attacker who has surprised you?

The first - soft technique - use a small circle move towards his thumb. Presto!

The second - side kick to knee, punch with free hand, head butt, etc.

[leejam99]

why not just kick him in the groin. i'm pretty sure he'll let go... try it without telling him.

[Huginn]

I would say, make a sideturn so his thumb becomes exposed, then with your free hand grab the thumb(palm of your hand on his thumb) en push his thumb down towards his pinky(be carefull not to hurt your sparringpartner).

[Don]

As has been mentioned, punches are just One of your tools - you have plenty more to choose from (head, knees, feet/shins, possibly elbows, throws, holds/locks, etc)! Unless there are mitigating circumstances, you counter immediately, violently, and explosively - make the BG want to let go of You.

I think it's great that you are "messing around". How heavy is the jacket you're wearing? Is it zipped up or not? Can you slip out of it quickly or not? Is the "BG" grabbing sleeve only or sleeve and hand/wrist/arm? Where on the sleeve is he grabbing? Is he grabbing same side or cross ways? Is he using one hand or two? Is he grabbing both your sleeves or just one? Is he pulling, yanking, or otherwise trying to control you with the grab? If one hand, what is he doing with his other hand or other tools? Does he also have something on you can grab? What if he then pulls your jacket/sweatshirt over your head a la hockey jersey style? What if there is more than one BG? etc...

[Don]

I almost forgot to reference Stevetuna's recent eye-opening incident where he was dealing with a BG AND a dog and the dog had a hold of his primary gun hand/arm.

[phlegmon27]

Go for the eyes. He'll let go.

[Kirsten]

I second James' response! And MJ is 100% correct on not wrapping your arm up, it's a good way to get taken down.

[La Revancha]

Originally Posted by MariusNC

Maybe the wrist-release would work here? A quick, jerking motion to break the hold.

I agree here. The principles of wrist releases, and plucks even, help out tremendously when grip fighting/clinch fighting in judo/jits/muay thai. This even goes when somebody grabs your shirt or jacket at the collar.

Common thug may let go after a headbutt, or a kick to the nuts, but watch some hockey fights for bad case scenarios-there is plenty of exchanges before someone lets go.

And let's say wrist releases and kicks to the nuts/headbutts prolong the situation-might be a good time to utilize 2-on-1 takedown series/sode-tsurkiomi gosh series.

THIS IS WHY IT'S IMPORTANT TO CROSS-TRAIN!!

[Kirsten]

Originally Posted by La Revancha

might be a good time to utilize 2-on-1 takedown series/sode-tsurkiomi gosh series.

Well that won't work well for me... too many movements and if I am on ice or gravel I may bite it. I did the hip throw for years in Hapkido and TKD and it was difficult even then for me at 125 to toss a 200 lb man. I leave that to you guys. I will continue with my wicked ways of groin kicks and headbutts... LOL

But if its going to the ground, and again this is just IMO, I personally think that there is no way in hell am I taking it to the ground unless I am forced there... kicking, screaming, and taking out balls... eyeballs and... well I am sure you can imagine what else AND I crosstrain with the second best person in the industry! If it ends up there cause I am tossed, then it happens... but damned if I am not going to fight it like a cat in a bath.

[michaelmall]

Didn't I open a can of worms!It is just an odd thing to have happen,to
have someone grab your sleeve underneath and control your arm in
such a way.The guy was a friend of mine.It dose make a good teaching
possibility

[leejam99]

again... kick in the groin. why get fancy? I think a simple test would be to have someone hold on to your sleeve as hard as they can. than try the different suggestions here. I can almost say with certainly that any type of release technique would be difficult because of the fact that the clothing is very easy to grab and grip tight and its also flexible and stretchy which make it even that much harder to get the grip released. Now, kick him down below or poke him in the eye and see what the reaction is. keep it simple, direct, pick vulnerable targets that are easy to attack and will get the most bang for your bucks.

[Kirsten]

No can of worms! We love this stuff... and you have KM instructors all chatting it all up, isn't that the point? So grab your can opener and have at it!! :-)

[Kirsten]

Come to think of it, head over to the LE side and see if you can light a fire under the Force Instructors pants and get them chatting!!

[CLFMak]

Learning some judo could prove useful. The grip fighting I learned in a little judo made me a lot more comfortable with someone grabbing my sleeve and trying some generally hockey-esque tactics.

[La Revancha]

Indeed, I’m all for instructors exchanging ideas!

After rereading, I can see the confusion. I meant 2 on 1 control or sode(sleeve) control, not necessarily the takedowns. I use 2 on 1 all the time to break grips in judo/jits without necessarily going for takedowns. Sorry about that!

If all else fails (ie, being a cat in a tub), these are other methods to get them off your sleeve, considering that was the initial question. What you do from there (CONTINUE being a cat in a tub, backing off tactically, or throwing the dude), depends on the defender. I know a well-respected SoCal cop who used sode grip to toss a drug dealer. Broke the douche bag’s arm in the process.

Oh, I spent four years in the frigid mid-atlantic. If I was standing on black ice or even 3-4 inches of snow, groin strikes are indeed available, but I would be apprehensive of throwing any kicks, but that's just me.

Originally Posted by leejam99

I think a simple test would be to have someone hold on to your sleeve as hard as they can. than try the different suggestions here. I can almost say with certainly that any type of release technique would be difficult because of the fact that the clothing is very easy to grab and grip tight and its also flexible and stretchy which make it even that much harder to get the grip released. Now, kick him down below or poke him in the eye and see what the reaction is. keep it simple, direct, pick vulnerable targets that are easy to attack and will get the most bang for your bucks.

Uh, that’s kinda what happens if you randori/roll consistently. You accidently get poked, kicked, elbowed in all sorts of places, and a tolerance can be acquired (which is scary, in a way). Why don’t you stop by my new class next month and we can compare notes!

[michaelmall]

Kristen I got two force instructor on this already.

[Jesse]

Dunno if it's any help, but Ryan had us doing sleeve grabs this morning. What he told us was to simply base it on the threat level. If it was friendly enough then just to use the soft wrist releases and add another twist around. Otherwise, to just go ballistic with combatives on them. We all dressed up in long sleeves to practice it. I was wearing a fairly tough hoodie. My partner was strong enough and was grabbing the sleeve for all he was worth. So long as I twisted towards his thumb I never had any problem using the torque to force him to let go long before my sleeve got twisted far enough to be a problem to me. Besides if they're a monster and won't let go of the sleeve I'm going to try to get the first hits in anyway. Headbutts and a lot of leg techniques are still available and they're just as handicapped as I am by the loss of use of the arm. Hopefully, Ryan will chime in on this since he was the one teaching it in the first place. All I'm doing is trying to quote accurately.

[Kirsten]

Sweet Michaelmall... We gotta represent more! :-)

[leejam99]

Originally Posted by La Revancha

Indeed, Iím all for instructors exchanging ideas!

Uh, thatís kinda what happens if you randori/roll consistently. You accidently get poked, kicked, elbowed in all sorts of places, and a tolerance can be acquired (which is scary, in a way). Why donít you stop by my new class next month and we can compare notes!

if you poke a guy in his eyes and kick the groin hard as you can and he is still standing there holding on to your sleeve because he acquired a tolerance for it..... um... i really doubt that anything else is going to have a huge impact on this person.

[Sunstar]

The groin kick is always good. Palm hand to the face, strike to the jugular notch, cup hand to the ear or axe hand to the side of the neck would be my suggestions.

[La Revancha]

Well, James, we're going beyond the scope of sleeve grabs, so let's agree to disagree.

This is just me, but to assume my FKG (or any combative) will always land perfectly with maximal power is short-sighted. It's a great assumption but there is no gaurantee. Hence why I adopt the ideas of folks like Ryan Hoover, Jeff Jimmo, and Geoff Thompson-improve your support systems and train for worst case scenarios.

I'm outta here.

Jesse, send my best to the RHEK camp. Tell JJ I finally got a copy of On Combat.

[leejam99]

I think we have to remember that we are in the Krav Maga forum and that the main principles of Krav is that a technique should be easy to learn, easy to remember and easy to execute for anyone.

I would say that if a person (a regular man or woman) can't execute a groin kick or a poke in the eye, they will probably not be proficient enough to execute any kind of a throw..

[Kirsten]

We little girls learn several things from our moms when we are young. I will share it with all of you. But know that I put my very life in danger by divulging this info with you men...

1. Learn to kick to groin
2. Learn to poke in the eye if they defend the groin kick
3. Hide what you buy at the mall and act like its "old"
4. Cry at will
5. The "headache"

There is more, but I am already in fear of my life from the "Estrogen Patrol"...

[mara_jade]

Oh cmon..We gotta give the guys a little hand you know

NINE WORDS WOMEN USE
(1)Fine: This is the word women use to end an argument when they are right and you need to shut up.

(2)Five Minutes: If she is getting dressed, this means a half an hour. Five minutes is only five minutes if you have just been given five more minutes to watch the game before helping around the house.

(3)Nothing: This is the calm before the storm. This means something, and you should be on your toes. Arguments that begin with nothing usually end in fine.

(4)Go Ahead: This is a dare, not permission. Don't Do It!

(5)Loud Sigh: This is actually a word, but is a non-verbal statement often misunderstood by men. A loud sigh means she thinks you are an idiot and wonders why she is wasting her time standing here and arguing with you about nothing. (Refer back to # 3 for the meaning of nothing.)

(6)That's Okay: This is one of the most dangerous statements a women can make to a man. That's okay means she wants to think long and hard before deciding how and when you will pay for your mistake.

(7)Thanks: A woman is thanking you, do not question, or faint. Just say you're welcome. (I want to add in a clause here - This is true, unless she says 'Thanks a lot' - that is PURE sarcasm and she is not thanking you at all. DO NOT say 'you're welcome' . that will bring on a 'whatever').

(8)Whatever: Is a woman's way of saying F-- YOU!

(9)Don't worry about it, I got it: Another dangerous statement, meaning this is something that a woman has told a man to do several times, but is now doing it herself. This will later result in a man asking 'What's wrong?' For the woman's response refer to # 3.

[Kirsten]

LOL. MJ your gonna be on the "Estrogen Patrol's" top ten wanted list for that post!!

[CLFMak]

I'll have to side with La Revancha on this one. They probably have the most experience with someone grabbing the sleeves with full intensity and intent to dominate.

[michaelmall]

Mara jade , you need to e-mail those to Stevetuna for his
PMSkrav class.Please do more my wife didin't come with a manual.

[mara_jade]

Originally Posted by Kirsten

LOL. MJ your gonna be on the "Estrogen Patrol's" top ten wanted list for that post!!

Oh, now hold up now

Who said I wasn't an equal opportunity offender - I showed hubby my rules so he showed me his

Mens Rules for Women

We keep getting all these, "rules from the woman's side", emails so we figured it was time for a "rules from the man's side" email. These are our rules! Learn them, memorize them and use them!

Learn to work the toilet seat. You're a big girl. If it's up, put it down. We need it up, you need it down. You don't hear us whining about you leaving it down.

Sometimes we are not thinking about you. Live with it.

Saturday = Sports

Crying is blackmail.

Ask for what you want. Subtle hints do not work! Strong hints do not work! Obvious hints do not work! Just say it!

We don't remember dates. Mark them on a calendar and remind us frequently.

Yes and No are perfectly acceptable answers to almost every question.

Come to us with a problem only if you want help solving it. That's what we do. Sympathy is what your girlfriends are for.

Check your oil! Please.

Anything we said 6 months ago is inadmissible in an argument. In fact all comments become null and void after 7 days.

If you think you're fat, you probably are. Don't ask us. We refuse to answer that question anymore.

If something we said can be interpreted two ways and one of the ways makes you sad or angry, we meant the other one.

Let us look. It doesn't hurt anyone, to look. And for us, its genetic.

Whenever possible, please say whatever you have to say during commercials.

Christopher Columbus did not need directions, and neither do we.

ALL men see in only 16 colours. Peach, for example, is a fruit, not a colour. We have no idea what mauve is.

We are not mind readers and we never will be.

If we ask what is wrong and you say "nothing," we will believe you.

When we have to go somewhere, absolutely anything you wear is fine.

You have enough clothes.

You have too many shoes.

It is neither in your best interest or ours to take any quiz together. No, it doesn't matter which quiz.

BEER is as exciting for us as handbags are for you.

Thank you for reading this; Yes, I know, I have to sleep on the couch tonight, but did you know we really don't mind that, it's like camping.

[michaelmall]

One minute Mara jade not all those rules apply a peach
grows on trees in georgia,mauve is a bunch of people gathered
together.And how may feet does a woman have two that
mean one pair of shoes is enough.

[MagaMike]

Originally Posted by mara_jade

Learn to work the toilet seat. You're a big girl. If it's up, put it down. We need it up, you need it down. You don't hear us whining about you leaving it down.

This is how I solved this argument once and for all: I just started always closing the lid completely. That puts both sexes on a level playing field and, as a bonus, completely irritates my wife because there is no credible way to oppose the practice without admitting that she just wants to have it her way, period.

[mara_jade]

Originally Posted by CJs Dad

OMG I think thatís the most fun Iíve had in this forum EVER!

Why thank you. Sorry for the thread hijack but Kirsten started it

[mara_jade]

Originally Posted by michaelmall

One minute Mara jade not all those rules apply a peach
grows on trees in georgia,mauve is a bunch of people gathered
together.And how may feet does a woman have two that
mean one pair of shoes is enough.

I should've edited a few things on there. I'm not a shoe person at all but on the too much stuff - yeah mineral makeup, makeup brushes and reading Star Wars applies

[Kirsten]

OMG, MJ totally threw me under the bus!! She didn't just toss me under either, she used a sode-tsurkiomi gosh!! LOL

[michaelmall]

Hope you had your makeup on,don't want to look bad
when that bus hits you.lol

[mara_jade]

Originally Posted by Kirsten

OMG, MJ totally threw me under the bus!! She didn't just toss me under either, she used a sode-tsurkiomi gosh!! LOL

Oh I did NOT - I'm probably on the estrogen's and testerone's hit lists NOW. You just made one tiny comment is all

[michaelmall]

HELP!!!To all force instructors,this post has been hijack
by the estrogen liberation force I only see two as of yet
could be more around.They are asking for shoes and make up.
Need chocolate.Gun of no use.Situation critical!!!!!!!!!!!!

Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mara_jade]

Originally Posted by michaelmall

HELP!!!To all force instructors,this post has been hijack
by the estrogen liberation force I only see two as of yet
could be more around.They are asking for shoes and make up.
Need chocolate.Gun of no use.Situation critical!!!!!!!!!!!!

Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!