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Hi,
I’m new to Krav Maga (about 4 classes in). I come from a background of 3-4 years in Muay Thai and kickboxing. I realize I have only had a few classes thus far in Krav, but I’ve noticed a majority of the students in the classes I am in, as well as some of the teachers, have very poor punching and kicking form (from a boxing/kickboxing perspective).
I am curious to know if punching/kicking form is important in Krav Maga. I realize it may not be–perhaps confrontations on the street go so fast and involve so much outside of punches/kicks, that form isn’t as important. But it seems so fundamental in fighting to me, that it’s strange that not even some instructors would display good form.
Is this a bad sign with regard to the quality of these classes/teachers? If this is normal, I’m interested to learn why. I want to take Krav seriously and don’t want to pick up bad habits (which is easy to do when you’re around people that don’t pay as much attention to technique/form). Looking forward to people’s insight.Thanks,
ARe: Bad punch/kick form ok in Krav?
Welcome to the forum!
Proper form is very important, always is in KM. I don’t have any MT experience so I dunno how KM and MT compare with reference to punches and kicks. Don’t get me wrong but after 4 classes, it may be early to be judging at this point. What were y’all doing if you don’t mind me asking?
You can always share your concerns with your instructors you know.:wav:
Re: Bad punch/kick form ok in Krav?
I have noticed that in Krav a huge emphasis is placed on rapid retraction and protection of the vital areas, which are not normally legal in sport fighting.
This is just my observation, but it could be that proper “sport” form sacrifices a bit of the defensive posture necessary to survive a street encounter in which there are no rules. A good example of this would be the amount of power in MT generated from dropping the arm during a kick – in KM you never want to drop the arm during a kick.
All that is just my theorizing… hopefully an instructor will set things straight 🙂 Happy holiday
Re: Bad punch/kick form ok in Krav?
Hi Welcome to the forums~
Not sure where your training at in San Fran but most of the guys I know if the Bay Area like Christian V. are awesome.
Since my background consists of a lot of MT I tend to notice that if its an issue.
Many of the basic combatives are direct derivatives of MT so your skill set will transfer over nicely no need to unlearn them!
Good luck with your training keep it up!Re: Bad punch/kick form ok in Krav?
Hey guys. Thanks for the speedy responses. The rapid extension and retraction of blows makes sense. It seems that overwhelming someone with a lot of aggression and blows right away, and using quickness over form to surprise and stun someone, is a critical element of the style and defense. I guess maybe someone could still be very effective without having good form, but good form might make you all that more effective.
I suppose the additional thing that made me concerned was that I was being taught a pistol disarm technique in my 3rd class. I don’t know–but that seems very advanced for a beginner and I like to build a really solid foundation in something before moving onto the “cool” stuff. It seems some martial arts places emphasize the “hollywood” stuff over building a foundation in practical technique, and I’m not sure whether the place I’m training at is like this.
Forgive me if I don’t name the training center that Im at. Out of respect for them, my lack of exposure there might have given me the wrong impression. I’m signed up for 6 months, so I’ll have time to learn more. I approach this all from a perspective of humility and thought it couldn’t hurt to ask the question.
Happy holidays,
A
Re: Bad punch/kick form ok in Krav?
quote audall:Hey guys. Thanks for the speedy responses. The rapid extension and retraction of blows makes sense. It seems that overwhelming someone with a lot of aggression and blows right away, and using quickness over form to surprise and stun someone, is a critical element of the style and defense. I guess maybe someone could still be very effective without having good form, but good form might make you all that more effective.I suppose the additional thing that made me concerned was that I was being taught a pistol disarm technique in my 3rd class. I don’t know–but that seems very advanced for a beginner and I like to build a really solid foundation in something before moving onto the “cool” stuff. It seems some martial arts places emphasize the “hollywood” stuff over building a foundation in practical technique, and I’m not sure whether the place I’m training at is like this.
Forgive me if I don’t name the training center that Im at. Out of respect for them, my lack of exposure there might have given me the wrong impression. I’m signed up for 6 months, so I’ll have time to learn more. I approach this all from a perspective of humility and thought it couldn’t hurt to ask the question.
Happy holidays,
A
Totally understandable A not wanting to start any drama – good for youthumbsup On the pistol disarm, could it have been possibly put into your class to give y’all a preview of what’s to come at the higher levels? Weapons defenses technically doesn’t start until Level 4 but I know my center has given an intro classes in the past. The stipulation though was that you had to have passed Level 1. I’ve also read about other instructors at other centers teaching weapons to the lower levels. Nothing wrong with it but I believe in ‘walk before you can run’ comes into play, so I can understand your concern.
Ask for a curriculum the next time you’re in class. Share your concerns with your instructor – can’t hurt:wav:
Re: Bad punch/kick form ok in Krav?
BrentW – That’s a great question. Some of the indicators of bad form, in my minimal exposure, were:
-Not rotating the torso much when punching or throwing a roundhouse kick
-Not having the hands up high, punching, and bringing the hands back to that same position
-Getting way out over the front leg when throwing a right, or a #2, punch. This seems like it may be a difference of style more than bad form. But one of the things that I learned in kickboxing is that you can get into real trouble doing this because if you miss the punch, you’re not in a good position to follow up with something else, and an opponent might capitalize on you being off-balance. This is one I’ve had to work on A LOT.I saw a few of these things with instructors. i was also in the KM 1 class, so A LOT of students had very poor form. OF COURSE–this is completely normal for a beginner class. My form is certainly not fantastic (although I know what Im suppose to be doing), and I was pretty ugly to watch for some time when I started out. But I suppose it seemed that there was a lot less attention on the instructors part with respect to the basic mechanics of punching and kicking, then might be necessary to lay a foundation for beginners in these things.
Again, please know that I ask these questions with an intent to learn. I hope my tone reflects that.
Re: Bad punch/kick form ok in Krav?
Ok–so some quick questions. I could ask these at school, but I won’t be back until next week and if you guys will humor me, than I appreciate it:
-Does KM teach to punch without rotating the fist over so it is horizontal (as taught in boxing/kickboxing)? If so, is this because it’s faster? I feel like I lose power doing this. Is that ok–as long as I gain speed?
-Should I not worry about form as much in general? One of the biggest elements I’ve found in throwing sound punches over and over, or good kicks throughout a fight, is technique. But I realize a street fight is much different than the ring. Is it more important that I focus on other things–such as reaction time, or making sure I attack the most vulnerable parts of an opponent?is the Human Weapon show on Krav Maga a good representation of the style and fundamentals? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s12A3iffL6A&feature=related
The reason I signed up for KM was because I realized that even after devoting a few years to kickboxing (and I believe I went to a pretty legit kickboxing school), there was so much to self-defense/real world fighting that I didn’t know, that I could be still extremely vulnerable on the street.
Cheers,
ARe: Bad punch/kick form ok in Krav?
Hello Audall (and others). 🙂 Thank you for your post. I am one of the instructors at Krav Maga San Francisco. I do not frequently teach the level I classes but here’s what I like to stress to my students and may answer some of your questions:
From my point of view, technique is very important. Especially in the beginning level classes and ever more so in the intermediate and advanced level classes. Regarding punching, I like to make sure that there is proper hip and shoulder rotation throughout the strike. We tend to stress more of the vertical fist. One of the reasons is that for those who are just learning to strike they may tend to lead and then strike with the wrong knuckles (i.e. the last 2 instead of the first 2) which could result in a common boxer injury. Also, when punching with a horizontal fist, this tends to also raise the elbow which exposes the side of the body. In addition, learning this way will develop a habit that will have to be unlearned later in order to better perform a higher level attack/defense technique.
Some other pointers would be to make sure the hands are up, chin is down, elbows are in, shoulders over hips, striking through the target, etc.
Also, some students will take longer to learn a technique properly. So, for those with previous training, it is usually much easier to spot in others that which we have already trained ourselves correctly. However, it is the responsibility of the instructor to instruct the student properly.
As for teaching a gun disarm in a level 1 class, this is not something I would do unless there was some context I was trying to stress regarding the technique. For example, I have at times demonstrated the importance of the technique for a 360 defense by demonstrating with an attacker with a knife. However, this is not how I would start the instruction. So, to stress, I would not start out with a weapon as part of the initial instruction but may demonstrate later to emphasize the importance of the technique.
Also, I would echo a comment made previously: mention it to an instructor. He/She will not fix what they are not aware needs to be fixing. I will make sure the other instructors at the school are aware.
Please feel to introduce yourself to me. 🙂 If I’m not teaching, I’m usually training there a lot. 🙂
Again, thanks for the post and keep on training!
Cheers, Instructor Christian
Re: Bad punch/kick form ok in Krav?
Hey Guys,
Thanks for all the responses. I think I understand a lot better now. Making comparisons to kickboxing/boxing may be irrelevant in a lot of cases–as KM is for an entirely different situation. I appreciate all the input and Im just starting out my 6 month stint in Krav, so looking forward to learning a lot more.Cheers,
ARe: Bad punch/kick form ok in Krav?
Please feel free to post any other questions you’ve got as that’s why the forum’s here. You may also want to check out Complete Krav Maga by Darren Levine and John Whitman – great reference.
There’s a KM Beginner book coming out in a few months so check for that too.thumbsup
Christian – welcome to the forum – great to see more instructors coming over:wav:
Re: Bad punch/kick form ok in Krav?
Thanks Mara_Jade. I don’t get the opportunity to read the forum as much as I’d like but it is surely a great place to ask questions and gain insight. Where else can you ask a question and have so many people from so many different places around the world want to reply because of their passion for Krav. It’s a beautiful thing! 🙂
Re: Bad punch/kick form ok in Krav?
Hey, audall, welcome to the forum. Would you happen to train at Fairtex in SF?
I did a little MT in Maryland after a couple years in Krav.
Here I am in an asian festival in VA:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsG0Jc7ySgwI’d like to think my hips are going into my kicks. I also delivered my punches the way I deliver them in krav. My kru, the thai guy holding pads, never had any problems with my kicking or punching forms, be it shadow-boxing, pad work, or sparring.
Personally, I noticed some to little deviation in mechanics, other than the rotationg of the fist when punching, the recoiling method of hooks, and standard dropping the arm back when kicking.
quote audall:BrentW – That’s a great question. Some of the indicators of bad form, in my minimal exposure, were:-Not rotating the torso much when punching or throwing a roundhouse kick
-Not having the hands up high, punching, and bringing the hands back to that same positionRotating hips, hip sponsorship as they call it in NC, and keeping hands up covering the face are UBIQUITOUS components in KM; they are described regularly in L1 and I still remind students about them in LIII/LIV.
Matter of fact, I fail students on exams if I don’t see consistency of both.
quote audall:-Getting way out over the front leg when throwing a right, or a #2, punch. This seems like it may be a difference of style more than bad form. But one of the things that I learned in kickboxing is that you can get into real trouble doing this because if you miss the punch, you’re not in a good position to follow up with something else, and an opponent might capitalize on you being off-balance. This is one I’ve had to work on A LOT.Unsure of what you mean here. Are you talking about bursting?
We do a lot of bursting motions towards the attackers. We begin teaching this in L1 and is applied throughout the system, including several of our weapons disarms. We are big on balanced distribution of weight. Rarely have I seen trouble with followup attacks, or problems dealing with attackers when they adapt and counter themselves.
Bottom line: it may simply be an issue of reformating the CD-R. You have a good instructor in Christian who has been doing this for a while, so you have a good resource to talk to. Plus you have us here! Good luck. Hopefully, you will be able to train both Krav and MT. Let us know how it goes.
Oh, and whassup, Christian! Happy Holidays, compadre!
S.O. Christian
Re: Bad punch/kick form ok in Krav?
quote KM714:Thanks Mara_Jade. I don’t get the opportunity to read the forum as much as I’d like but it is surely a great place to ask questions and gain insight. Where else can you ask a question and have so many people from so many different places around the world want to reply because of their passion for Krav. It’s a beautiful thing! 🙂Exactly thumbsup
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