Viewing 13 posts - 16 through 28 (of 28 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #56099
    giant-killer
    Member

    Well, then get a gun and work those muzzles. See what you can do… 😆

    _________________
    Giantkiller

    #56107
    bradm
    Member

    \”Brad, to piggyback on John’s comments, this defense is a bigger movement, which gives the gunman the opportunity for more reaction time. If we extrapolate further, what happens if the gunman detects the movement, and pulls the gun back? With this defense, you have not bettered your position, and you are not thinking about hitting the gunman (nor have you done anything to the gunman.) \”

    Hi Ryan,
    I don’t want to get too deep in discussing CKM vs KM techniques. I think I done that once and had my post deleted. But, as I stated above, I’ve done both the KM one hand defense and the CKM two hand defense. And I like them both. But, because of my arthritis in my left hand, I had/have a more difficult time with the one handed technique. For me, the two handed technique is actually a smaller (shorter) and quicker movement than the one handed (when done correctly as I said before). If there’s resistance and the attacker trys to pull the gun away, you should have a firm grip on his wrist with one hand and a firm grip on the gun with the other hand. As he pulls the gun away, you move in placing your elbow over his forearm, maintaining control of the weapon. From there you are in an excellent postion to quickly strike the groin, strike to the head, or knee to his leg if necessary. Then take the gun away.

    With the one handed technique, the gunman can also try to pull the weapon away if the technique is not done properly or quick enough.

    With either technique, it takes practice to make it instinctive. To me, it’s just a matter of which one you prefer. I have tried them both.

    #56108
    cjs-dad
    Keymaster

    Just as a point of clarification, can someone type out the 2 handed steps for ìGun from the frontî

    I know the one I learned I just want to make sure we are all on the same page.

    (this is not a ckm vrs km discussion just exploring different options)

    #56119
    ryan
    Member

    Brad, I know you don’t like the answers you’re getting here as much as the ones you’re getting on the other forum, but I’d still like to hear what happens if you miss the grab. You’re still in the same position, and you haven’t done anything to the gunman. Now what?

    Also, the argument on the other forum seems to be, get two hands on the gun, because the gunman is likely to put two hands on, and you don’t want to fight for the gun. Huh? You’re still fighting for the gun, it’s just that you both have both hands tied up with the weapon. I’m also curious to know how you are supposed to get this 20+ feet of distance that is constantly advocated, without doing anything to the gunman. While you’re backing up, making space, tapping and racking, what’s the gunman doing?

    I agree, if you can get two hands on and make a quick disarm, that’s a fantastic way to do things. However, does it work if I screw up? Does it work if the gun is not touching me or at least very close to me? Thanks.

    #56134
    psyops
    Member

    Ok,

    I’m in. The difference for me is position of the weapon. There are times where a one are defen. se is not the best. For instance if a loved one is standing next to you and you don’t want to point the weapon toward them. You can use the two hand motion and go the opposite way.It is a matter of comfort really. If I feel that I can use one hand then of course I try to do so. If not two hands. But you have to read and recognize the opportunity and be confident enough in the defense to just go.

    #56145
    giant-killer
    Member

    Brad, also remember there is a two handed KM technique that can be done from the front if you prefer. Redirect the gun off your body with your left hand, step forward at an angle with your left leg and catch with your second hand, then counter with a groin kick, disarm, make space. Might be easier on your wrist and it does have a strong counter. Also, it can be used if you don’t want to redirect the weapon to your right, for example if you are with family and they are standing on that side.

    The Moni technique seems to employ a similar motion as the one we use for gun to the side of the body, in front of the arm. However, the way we do it in that situation, the gun and wrist are caught from underneath, not the top, elbows in, which might keep the gun more stable in case the attacker is struggling. Then there are counters as soon as the weapon is taken. Grabbing the gun and arm from the top appeared to be a bit less secure, especially if your hands are small and the attacker has large (and maybe sweaty) forearms. I also slowed it down and saw a potential for accidently redirecting the line of fire toward the arm that grabs the gun.

    _________________
    Giantkiller

    #56149
    ryan
    Member

    One hand defenses may be made in the case of third party concerns, also. I’m not saying two hand defenses don’t work, but it’s best to limit the number of options in such a stressful situation. Besides this, the real issue, for me, is not one hand or two hand, but it’s rather the lack of aggressive counterattackers and bettering of position if my initial move fails.

    #56159
    whatever
    Member

    Hi.

    I just noticed this part of the forum…

    I have seen the KM on History Chanel, and I believe it was OK. Some of the guys I know, and I know they are valid and legitimate.

    The only thing I did not like, gun disarm by Moni Aizik. Especially from the front. The type of disarm IKMF or KMWW teaches from the front understand some principles, what Moni does not see:
    – there is no counter attack in his technique
    – the technique requires every time two hands, while the original KM technique also can be done even with one hand. Lets say you are LE or Mil and you have something in your hand…You can still do it, except it wont be as secure…
    – What is the opponent react fast, and pulls the gun back or originally holding the weapon a bit hiding position?
    – VIP protection – one of my hand is moving the VIP, the other is making the redirect of the gun/barrel. Now what? What from angle? From front?

    You can tell how much the person is trained with pistol from watching what moved he makes after the gun disarm?
    – Is he checking the gun?
    – Re-cocking the weapon?
    – Hitting the magazine?
    Many things, what I have never seen Moni Aizik doing. Except he is aiming with two hands from two meters…Come on guys…

    He might be great warrior, good trainer, but teaching sh*t about gun disarm.

    Sorry for my english…

    #56160
    whatever
    Member

    Another option to close the argument.
    Buy an airsoft gun, face mask. Test. Decide… 😉

    #56166
    dugfoot
    Member

    When I originally posted this, I posted it in the LE/Military portion of the forum. I was asking if other LE/Military trainers have experienced the same reluctance in the LE community to the 1 hand grabs that I have experienced.
    Many of your posts have given me some great ideas in order to \”tweek\” my technique but with me you are preaching to the choir when it comes to the distinct advantage of the 1 hand gun defenses. I have preferred the 1 hand defense since I 1st learned it. I have also found through training with a variety of basic and advance LE h2h programs that Krav seems to be the only one that advocates the 1 hand defense. Even in the basic police academies they teach 3 basic gun defenses and these use 2 hands.
    However, my questions still have not been answered.
    I know that there are several real good LE/Military trainers on this forum so I am soliciting their input as to working through this reluctance and whether or not they have experienced the same thing.

    #56180
    cmetalman
    Member

    attacker holds gun with two hands

    haven’t done krav for over five years , but I remember using two hand grab when attacker holds gun with both hands don’t know if one hand is a option?

    #56186
    johnwhitman
    Member

    Hey dugfoot,
    Sorry I missed this post over at the LE forum.

    No, to be honest, we don’t experience much resistance. We have a lot of experience explaining it, though, so perhaps that’s part of it.

    In fact, most officers appreciate the need to redirect the weapon and then deal with the suspect.

    #56200
    ryan
    Member

    Dugfoot, in NC, the BLET curriculum included a technique very similar to what Moni showed on the History Channel…until I went to the Justice Academy and showed them what KM had to offer. Hope that helps. If you have other questions, e-mail me, since I don’t like to say much publicly about what the LEOs are doing here.

    Thanks,
    Ryan

    [email protected]

Viewing 13 posts - 16 through 28 (of 28 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
Get Training!

EXPERIENCE KMW TODAY!

For more information call now at

800.572.8624

or fill out the form below: