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Had a chance to go thru the book and noticed a couple of things:
p 25, fingers are too open, can be attacked easily by an opponent,
p29. His stance seems a bit too open and the groin can be easily attacked.
p173 Why bring the knee all the way up vertically and out to the side like when that is not the direction that the knee is going?
The defender is right foot forward, all he has to do is bring his rear knee forward and change the angle as it enters the attackers midsection to target the ribs.Bringing it straight up is wasted motion and that means wasted time and opportunities.
p122
The defenders left leg should be turned outward, not inward as the picture shows. If the leg is turned outward, you can automatically follow up with a rear roundhouse or knee because of the way your foot would land.As it is, when his foot lands,it would require additional movement on his part to use the rear leg.
p116
The defender traps with her right hand, with no counter, than switches to her left before countering, she missed an opportunity to counter initially, then disengages and engages to start the counter.Would be much more efficient if she would have countered off the intial trap.
p105 The front kick has no shuffle(glicha in hebrew) it is not introduced until blue belt I believe.
Whether you are going to advance or not, you should always shuffle, it generates more power. It is also very easy to learn, so why wait?
If you don’t advance forward, you shuffle back.
p314 the knife is right next to the defenders neck in picture 2, a simple twist of the wrist and his jugular is cut. Or a bend in his elbow.
p309,310 and 311
The defender needs to go deadside more after the intial defense and strike. In picture 3, if he were more deadside and exerted downward pressure on the shoulder, the attacker would fall fwd and you can strip the knife while you control his arm.
Picture 6 7 and 8 could have been eliminated from this technique if done the right way. Additionally he brings the knife BACK to his neck/shoulder area in picture 6.
In 7 he should have kicked the attacker in the face to further disable him, he did try to stab you.
.02
Hmmm, I don’t know, p 25, his hands are open to deflect a possible strike by the opponent. We don’t ususally use a closed fist while moving in fighting stance. Maybe his left pinky is out a bit too far, but nothing terrible.
p 29, I don’t know, looks about right to me. He’s ready to lift that leg up and defend if the kick should come.
p173, I suppose I agree here, it looks a bit strange to lift the leg that far to the side, but he targets the sides of the ribs, maybe the idea was to get more power for the strike as opposed to throw a quicker, more inconspicuous knee.
p 122: I’ve seen both version, inward and outward. I suppose it depends on how you are positioned in the fight and what counter you are planning on throwing next. Sometimes it just feels easier to turn the foot inward and it is not all that hard to slide it to the side from there and get back to a regular fighting stance or throw a counter. Or if you land with the foot turned inward, you may be able to throw a spinning kick. So, I wouldn’t consider it \”wrong\”, just another alternative.
p116 This is a reflexive defense, so the idea is that you defend at at the very last second, while your hands are down. It’s a kick, long range weapon vs your shorter arms, so you simply may not have time to lean in and give an immediate counter. Also, the attacker may be too far away and it may be better to concentrate on sweeping the leg past first. If not, you may deflect the kick only partially and you might not blade your body enough while trying to reach with that immediate punch. A quick deflection, then a counter, seems to make more sense in that situation. One thing I noticed though, in picture 2 it looks like Kelly (the defender) is being kicked in the groin by the attacker.
p105: Not sure what you mean by shuffle. You mean like an advancing front kick? Or should she shuffle in place before delivering the kick? In that case, even though it might give her more power, it would also be more noticeable. Sometimes it may just be preferable to give a slightly less powerfull but quicker and more inconspicuous quick. Also, this is for yellow belts training for orange. So, the simplest form of the kick is introduced there, later there will be advances and shuffles.
p314 Yep, that Darren, he really doesn’t know his defenses… 😆 I think it’s really just the picture making the knife look closer than it is. He is giving a strong counter at the same time, making it less likely that the attacker will go for a slash. Remember, this is not the end position. He’ll be there for only a moment before moving on to picture 3 where the knife is further away. Also there is a lot of weight on the attackers biceps while in the position of picture 2, keeping the arm away.
p309, 310, 311 Not sure what you mean, you mean the attacker should be pushed to the ground after the initial defense? The takeaway as shown is usually the way we practice it, but of course you also have the option of not going for a takeaway at all and just give a few knees and then back off. If you can push the attacker to the ground, maybe, but wouldn’t you lose control of his arm? Also, you are now on the ground with a (still) armed attacker. Maybe that’s just something different your organization does, I haven’t practiced it that way, so I don’t know. As for picture 7, it is mentioned in the text that you have the option of kicking him to the face (and that’s how we usually practice it).
Anyway, interesting comments.
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GiantkillerNever said closed fist, but more like the fingers closer together. Ever get punched in a finger? Ever have your exposed finger grabbed? I have and have done it. Very painful.
That’s where I’m going with that one.
The shuffling or advancing front kick I mention is when you use a quick kick with your front leg, shuffle the rear then shuffle back, or continue forward. They are done simultaneously so there is no difference, just more power.
As for the foot planting on the kick defense, I didn’t say wrong, just think the other way is more practical to learn. Sure you can use some type of reverse kick that way, but use of the rear leg in that position seems easier and more efficient IMHO. Rear roundhouse or knee or any type of rear spinning kick? Plus landing the way in the book requires more work to even use your front knee, you have no angle to attack with it after it lands, at least not an easy one.
The fighting stance is not drastically open, but I think I can get a quick groin kick in there against quite a few people, but that’s just me. Lol! I prefer it a little more closed.
The knife defense is a little more difficult to describe in writing, but no, you do not have an armed attacker on the ground, you have gone deadside from the initial counter, trapped the knife hand at the wrist, in the crook of your arm(can’t get out if done right) and pushed his attacking shoulder straight down to the ground with your right hand, he goes down and has to use his left hand to prevent from hitting the ground, you have an enormous amount of pressure on the attacking hand and stripping the knife is a piece of cake.
I’ll try to find a pic for you.
As for the rest, I don’t have the book with me but will reply when possible.
Hmmm, that knife defense thing is interesting. Yes, a picture would be good. But even if you are able to push him toward the ground, isn’t the knife still close to your shoulder? Wouldn’t you still have to turn his hand around, so you can do a cavalier and then strip the knife (as shown in the book)?
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GiantkillerLike I said, it’s hard to describe, I will try and video tape or take pics of the actual technique.
I was thinking a bit more about the kick defense, and thought if the defender were being attacked from the side, he wouldn’t be in position to use his foot pointed outward like I suggested,n however, he isn’t facing sideways in the picture, he is facing left foot forward towards the attacker. From this angle, it is much easier to face your foot counterclockwise and follow up with either leg instead of planting your foot, then pivoting outside to use the rear leg(or front) instead of a more difficult spinning reverse kick.
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Back to the front kick.
I believe that the shuffle is needed for reasons other than power.
It adds range. If you practice the belief that if a kick can be avoided, than we do so as was said on this forum, it stands to reason that if an attacker were to use a front kick to the groin, perhaps an attacker may try to back away.
If that were the case and you did not shuffle, you have limited your reach and would come up short.
By adding the shuffle you gain a significant amount of reach. If he doesn’t back away, you nail him with your shin. If he does, you nail him with your foot.
If he closes in, you still have the knee.
.02
Hmmm, I just think there are a few different ways to kick and all are good options. In that section of the book, the kick is being learned for the first time, so I think they try to make it as simple as possible at that stage and add more complicated moves later.
I suppose it all depends on the situation. A shuffle might be a tad more noticeable and maybe a bit slower than simply raising your leg for the kick. If the attacker is pretty close, a simple rising kick may be the quickest thing to do, especially if he doesn’t expect it. He probably wouldn’t have much time to move back up if he is surprised. If you do a shuffle move, it may be more noticeable, alerting him to your intentions and giving him the opportunity to defend.
The kick defense, well, I guess I see what you are saying, but we do practice it both ways. Not sure why only this version was shown in the book. If you are blocking with your front leg, I don’t think it takes you completely out of the fight. As soon as you have done the block, you put your foot back down and you can have your toes face forward again. But the other way might be more convenient from that position, especially if you are planning on landing back in a regular fighting stance.
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GiantkillerAre you guys still talking about page 122?
If so, then I have to say I disagree with Plantman, especially in terms of showing a single option in a book of this nature. Turning the toes outward means external rotation of the hip. This is much more awkward for most people, especially men, when also extending the hip and leg. Plus, turning the toes out potentially exposes the groin rather than covering it. Turning the toes inward causes the entire foot to help block the line to the groin. Also, it allows you to lift your knee, which by itself blocks the line of attack if you can’t complete the technique, and then stomp down with much more power.
I would not mind a particular student working on the variation in class (as GK says, we do it sometimes) but I always emphasis this as easier to perform and more practical…and if I have one page to cover this area, I would absolutely choose this one again.
I guess I should reply to a couple more of Plantman’s critiques.
Pg. 116 — the left-hand counter is faster…but it’s usually much weaker. I actually show the left hand attack as an option. In fact, if you read the inset box on that page, you will see that discussed. 😉
Pg. 105 — I am a bit confused by the comment. We do shuffle or \”switch.\” That’s what the text says.
Pg. 314 — hm, the knife isn’t anywhere near his throat, and can’t get to it. His elbow is down and his shoulder is up. I DO AGREE that the overall control isn’t great, but options are limited in this situation. If you try to grab the wrist immediately, you risk never catching it at all.
Pg. 309 — I know the version of the disarm you describe. It’s good. There are several we show to LE like this. The downside is that you have to go downward with him and stay focused on him a bit longer than we like. As far as kicking him in the face, I suppose we hint at that when we write \”If you meet resistance, kick to the face or groin.\” 😉
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