October 4, 2009 at 2:17 pm #78199
Again guys, it depends on what you want the carbine for. Let necessity be your guide. If you want a gun suitable for 3 gun, check with 3 gunners. If you want a gun set up for social work, check with MIL/LE. If I wanted a great violin, I wouldn’t seek out a great guitarist.October 4, 2009 at 3:21 pm #78201
Re: AR-15’squote Jeremy Stafford:
To me this doesn’t ring true. Nice in theory, but most of the time it’s not the users of the gun that make the purchase decisions. When choosing a gun for social work, find what has been tested inside and out, critiqued, and refined. You don’t get that from most LEO shops. It would be great if you did, but that’s not the reality I’ve seen so far.
The good thing about checking with cometition gunners is that you get to ask the people why they made the purchase decision. Someone may have chosen a Rock River AR because of the accuracy, or SIG 556 for reliability. You can find out and choose what most resonates with your needs. “Because we have a contract with them” is a lousy thing to depend on, and just as bad as “lowest bidder”.
LeamOctober 4, 2009 at 4:23 pm #78203
Well, having competed at a fairly high level with them and having killed lots of people with them, I can tell you that my competition gun and my work gun are vastly different tools built for vastly different missions. The mission drives the equipment.October 5, 2009 at 9:39 am #78222
Re: AR-15’squote Jeremy Stafford:
Agreed, if the user and buyer are the same person or are on the same mission oriented page.
Spent some time yesterday thinking about this, and I still feel that quality answers will come from different places. For example, the Noveske looks awesome. If I did more research and found the same sorts of data then it would be a good buy.
My suggestion about 3-gun is because many competition gunners are also current or former Mil/LEO. They can guide on what parts have a bad record and which makers put out a product that works every time, 100,000 times a year. Add-ons may be different, by mission.
Jeremy, I think we agree on most parts of the discussion. Also, if I decide to build an AR, I know who to discuss my thoughts with. 🙂
LeamOctober 5, 2009 at 3:50 pm #78230
I think that the fact fact that we can even have this discussion is a testament to the quality of people that this board attracts. It is also good to remember that blasting pesky soda cans is a valid mission in and of itself, and does not require a race gun or a tactical wonder to do.October 6, 2009 at 12:38 am #78249
Re: AR-15’squote Jeremy Stafford:
Obviously you’ve never met me. :):
Here’s a funny you might enjoy. I’ve been wanting to get back into rifle for a while. As an early adopter to the bad economy I had to sell almost everything. That included a Marlin in 45 Colt, an FAL mostly done, a Yugo Mauser I was rebuilding, a Winchester ’97 12 gauge clone, and several handguns.
So I share my thoughts about rifle with some friends to commiserate. They turn around and offer to loan me ARs they have spare…
Both are Colt. rofl2
LeamOctober 6, 2009 at 3:39 am #78257
Good friends….October 21, 2009 at 8:40 pm #78540kvmorlMember
Not a Colt AR but what you experts think of this SR-556?
I’m by no means an expert or even good, that’s why I ask.
Use: personal and occasional target shooting.November 10, 2009 at 5:14 pm #78866
So I took my new Ruger SR-556 to the range on Sunday for the first time. It was the first time I shot a rifle in at least 10+ years and I wasn’t that good back then.
My Ruger has a Leupold AR Mk 2 1.5x4x20mm scope on it.
I felt the Ruger preformed very well all in all.
I shot 200 rounds of new Federal 55gr .223 ammo and about 50 rounds of various other 13 year old .223 ammo.
The gun was slightly oiled in the bolt and piston before I went to the range.
The gun jammed only once surprisingly with the new Federal ammo, NOT the 13-15 yr old ammo I had! I’ll chalk that up to anything could have happened.
My first major concern is that at the 4x setting at 100 yards, the target seemed very small!
At 50 yards the 4x setting seemed OK.
So my questions are —
1) What range was a 1.5x-4x scope designed for?
2) What is the largest scope that should be put on a 16″ AR?
Thanks!November 10, 2009 at 7:43 pm #78870aviatordaveMember
4x should be plenty for 100 yards. 4x should be fine out to about 400 yards or a little more. As a reference point – many scopes for military use are 10x, considered good out to 1000 yards.
Think of it like this – a 100 yard target at 4x is like shooting at a 25 yard target through the iron sights. Don’t think you need it so magnified that you can see every bullet hole. That’s what spotting scopes are for.
You want to use the lowest power scope that still lets you center the crosshairs on the target, it will give you the widest field of view and let in the most light.
I have a Leupold 3.5-14×50 scope on my .308, but at the 100 yard range near me it sits on about 4x all the time.November 10, 2009 at 8:16 pm #78872
Thanks, that’s good info….
At 50 yards I was shooting 2″ groups. For me that’s pretty good considering it was the first time I tried to shoot in over 10 years with a new rifle and a newly sighted in scope. At 100 yards it was a lot worse…so I need to sight it in better.
Maybe my eyes aren’t the best because at 100 yeards I could see the center target fine, but not the targets on each corner. That’s why I was thinking I needed a more powerful scope.
Thoughts?November 10, 2009 at 8:55 pm #78873
Well, what do you want the rifle for? My fighting guns all wear 4X optics or RDSs, depends on the mission. What distance do you usually plan on shooting? You can spend a fortune on nice glass, and then just have the extra magnification compound existing marksmanship issues. It’s a real balancing act. How large were the targets at the corner? 1″ dots from a rack grade rifle at 4X might be pushing it, 3″ dots should work great. Remember, the rifle was designed to shoot smelly bearded men in the face, so 4″ groups at 100 Meters with off the shelf ammo sounds fine considering your skill level, ammo selection, experience with the rifle, Etc. I bet you shrink that down to 2″ as you get used to your equipment and find a load that the rifle likes. I would keep the existing glass and invest in practice ammo or maybe a carbine course from a reputable trainer.November 10, 2009 at 9:19 pm #78874
The rifle really is only going to be used at the 50-100 yard range once in awhile. So I think you’re right and I just just practice more and leave it at that. Part of the problem last Sunday is we were using the old worn spotting scope the range has at each bench. Next time I’m going to do it right and bring a nice pair of binoculars to see what the heck I’m doing.
I don’t remember how large the targets were on each corner but I guess they were 1/2 the size of the center target for whatever that’s worth.November 10, 2009 at 9:24 pm #78875aviatordaveMember
Re: AR-15’squote markx3:
How were you shooting? Offhand (freestanding) or resting it on a bench? And which ammo? Ammo can make a big difference. With good ammo, resting on a bench, and a new rifle, you should be getting groups 1/4th that size at 50 yards. Most new rifles with good ammo should be down in the 1″-2″ range at 100 yards area. Some are always 1″ or under, if the shooter does his part. Shooting from a rest will take a lot of your errors out so you can see what the rifle itself is capable of.
But you can put as much scope on it as you want to spend. If you’re going to be shooting at mostly 100 yard ranges, something in a 3-9x variable may help. Just don’t get a cheap one just so you can save money on a high-power scope. There is a huge difference in the lenses, the better scopes are far clearer. In other words, scopes are one of those things where you get what you pay for.November 10, 2009 at 9:25 pm #78876
I was shooting from a bench rest sitting down.
I was using new Federal 55gr .223 ammo. I know I have a lot to improve on…..
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