Check out these gun defenses.

[unstpabl1]

Hey Mike

Great golf in SC. Are you close enough to go play with the guys in Manasas, for seminars and stuff. Heard the first part of the range is up. They been bringing in some heavy hitters

mike

[mike-g]

I’m not sure. I don’t know where that is right off(unless you mean in VA). Have been to some of Gabes stuff with the Ronin Group in Anderson, and they have had him at the Mid Carolina Range in Columbia for a class or two.

[unstpabl1]

Re:

quote \”mike_g\:

I’m not sure. I don’t know where that is right off(unless you mean in VA). Have been to some of Gabes stuff with the Ronin Group in Anderson, and they have had him at the Mid Carolina Range in Columbia for a class or two.

Yeah Virginia. Know its not close, close, but a good road trip. They bring in Marc Denny,Tom Soits and of course the Infidel commander 😆 as well as other really good RBSD guys all the time. I think Sonny P will eventually do AK seminars up there when the range fully opens. good resource to compliment the krav.

The reason we think alike is those guys (WT) educated me 😆 and TPI. I’m a slow learner. Look forward to getting to know you better

[mike-g]

Re:

quote \”unstpabl1\:

I think Sonny P will eventually do AK seminars up there when the range fully opens.

Now that is something I really want to attend. I haven’t had a chance to go to any of their AK training but it is definately on the to do list.

[vwr32]

Re:

quote \”mike_g\:

Hey V did you retire an 11B?

lol no… 4 years active and 2 in the guard. That was a long time ago.

It seems popular to associate my newbie status in krav to inexperience with weapons as well or reality based training. I promise those involved with the topic at hand, I know what it’s like to \”train realistically\”. The most dangerous person handling any weapon is the one who thinks \”it can’t happen to me.\” There’s a place and time for all training, including using a real weapon. But it’s not in a classroom where \”an accidental discharge\” could put anyone at risk… even someone just passing in front of the school should the round pass thru a window.

Since the horse is already dead, beating it a little longer shouldn’t hurt too much. A question for the instructors: How well do you know your students. If it’s like my school, students sign a waiver and pay their fees… that’s about it.

As real as the possibility is for an accident, let’s just focus on the people who might be handed a weapon (keep in mind, this is nationwide if training with real weapons is a part of the training).

1. How many students have been treated recently for depression/suicide?
2. Anyone in your class bi-polar, being controlled with meds?
3. Have any students been convicted of violent crimes?
4. Are any of them on parole, for which handing them a weapon becomes a criminal act?
5. Any of the youngsters distraught enough to try to steal the weapon to teach mean classmates a lesson?

One friend of mine was benching just over 500 lbs when he came out of prison. To see him you’d think he was just any bodybuilder health nut. Unless you piss him off, then you see a whole different side of him. I ran into someone not long ago from my highschool who got the name \”Sticky Lou\” while in prison because he stabbed 2 people (never understood that.. his name is chad). He’s very outgoing and likes to laugh and joke. Nice guy if you didn’t know his past. But someone like these folks might be pointing a real gun at me in class? Nah, no thanks.

[vwr32]

{continued from above}

quote unstpabl1:

You have alot of opinions as he pointed out. I look forward to watching them grow as you get some time under your belt in krav and maybe into RBSD. So there is no misunderstanding on RBSD, I’m defining it as interface between Knife, gun and empty hands

Not sure how to respond to that. In a discussion of safety versus reality based training, I really don’t feel I’m the one who needs growth. To read your posts, I’m left with the idea that other people’s saftey is somehow inconvenient to your training. The \”range nazis\” are justified to stop anyone they feel is presenting a danger to themselves or others. They don’t know who u are or your past training, all they see is some SWAT wannabe running around like keanu reeves in The Matrix violating the safety rules of the range. You saying the range nazi’s are having hissy fits shows nothing but contempt for safety on the range. Very amateur imo, I guess I expect a deeper respect for safety from someone so involved in RBSD.

I took this pic in the sinai peninsula during a live fire exercise. Cpl Parker wanted to fire a few rounds too, that’s him in the shot. What you don’t see is the rest of the company running lanes at the base of the other mountain, just under the area where our rounds are landing.
http://www.pbase.com/kuru/image/74463660

Here’s pvt moore on the SAW, firing on the same live fire exercise just next to my M-60
http://www.pbase.com/kuru/image/74463657

Different training mission, but a cool shot with our ride home in the background. Our squad was OpFor for a squad of marines on this one… we flat smoked them. Man they were pissed. Has nothing to do with the topic, but I just liked the shot.
http://www.pbase.com/kuru/image/74463733

So with all due respect, I really don’t need lectures about what it takes to make it on the battlefield regarding fitness or how to add a sense of danger to training. I could write a book on it… but the first chapter is safety.

And as always: 😀

[mike-g]

Man V you are an old codger judging by that desert camo pattern on the BDUs in those pics. Thats the same as when I was in the Army way back when…lol

On a side note. I know it’s only symantics but when unstabl1 used the term range nazi it probably didn’t have anything to do with an overly safe(if you could be overly safe) range officer. I would bet that he has probably shot competitively in an organization like IDPA or USPSA. In those organizations that is a term given to a safety officer that is looking to gig you on any or every rule you in fact did break, that he thinks you broke, or that he thinks is a rule and you broke it. Most of the time these aren’t safety violations these are rules of the game such as your foot crossing over the fault line while shooting or not using cover properly, using both hands when your supposed to only use your strong or weak hand etc… If it was for safety reasons then he/she isn’t a range nazi and is doing what they are supposed to do.

[vwr32]

Re:

quote \”mike_g\:

Most of the time these aren’t safety violations these are rules of the game such as your foot crossing over the fault line while shooting or not using cover properly, using both hands when your supposed to only use your strong or weak hand etc… If it was for safety reasons then he/she isn’t a range nazi and is doing what they are supposed to do.

True, it might not have been unsafe acts on a range. It was in response to the question reguarding \”footwork\” while using a gun. The response used with range nazi was this:

\”Yeah buddy, its the triangle footwork. I think their finding most success at 11 and 1 oclock and one version comes thru southnarc via Pekiti. you know how they use that step as kind of a controled fall or drop step. Alot of this came from a symposium a few years and some airsoft expiriements. Some of our favorite players were there and its being worked and improved daily. And yes the range Nazis are having hissyfits\”

I took that to mean it wasn’t some shooting competition, rather some behavior that either fellow shooters objected to, or range personel saw as dangerous to other shooters on the firing line. Not sure I would feel safe if the guy in the next lane was doing maneuvers while shooting. For the hunters there teaching their kids gun safety, it’s probably counterproductive to their efforts too.

I think it *is* essential training, but probably best done when there aren’t others on the firing line to your left and right who didn’t sign up for the added possibility of becoming a victim of an accident if someone tripped during their \”footwork\”. Maybe make friends with someone who has some land and agrees to let that sort of training take place, join a gun club who schedules range time specifically for that function, or even talk to range personel about adding a time slot for people who want to train like that. Heck, start your own gun club and negotiate a time slot with a range willing to cater to your group.

If this was a matter of stepping over the line and receiving a penalty from some nitpicking range referee.. then my bad. But if it’s a matter of not adhereing to range policy concerning safety, then I have to side with the range \”nazis\”.

Not sure what you consider old… the pics were taken early 90’s, immediately following the 1st gulf war. Is that old? lol, Did they issue us some ancient desert cammies?

[unstpabl1]

I’m gonna try this one last time, only because I genuinely think you have something to offer V, but it seems you like to argue and get stuck in your point of view that you only hear your self. Either that, or I’m horrible on getting my point accross or we are 2 people who just aren’t gonna get each other. Its cool either way 😀 I may use caps not as yelling, but to define a point. 😀

I HAVE REPEATEDLY STATED IN THIS THREAD OVER AND OVER, THAT i AM NOT ADVOCATING THE PRACTICE OF UNLOADED GUNS, REAL KNIFES OR SWORDS.I think I made that point in one post like 3-4 times. I stated THE REASON WHY ITS DONE, THAT IT CAN BE DONE SAFELY AND WHAT MY \”PERSONAL EXPIRIENCE\” IN DOING IT WAS. I also stated I did not want to do the knife thing., but it is common in some SEA stuff.

i ALSO ABSOLUTELY UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT OF VIEW ON THE SUBJECT AND I HAVE BEEN AGREEING WITH IT . The only thing I see that we’ve really disagreed with is the pucker factor. I got no problem with that. You don’t agree…Okay …So What… I have to go by what I felt by the expirience and what it taught me and the group that participated. Its not a big deal to me that you don’t agree with me, because its the net 😆 and I get where your coming from. V, seriously man, I get it and have from the beginning

I AM NOT Attacking you, lack of expirience in krav and i have never put your thoughts, ideas or workouts down. I may come from a different perspective, but who knows where I’m gonna learn from. In faCT THATS WHY i JUMPED IN ON THE kFED THREAD, SO pETER COULDN’T USE IT AGAINST YOU AND DISCREDIT YOUR ARGUEMENT. iT WASN’T VALID (Peter) was the guys real name

The statement was as you get deeper into this and get introduced to more RBSD instuctors and ideas, its only natural for your opinions to change as your perspective grows. Its that simple. I was looking forward to how that will change over time

You misunderstood the Range Nazi line cause it wasn’t directed to you. It was also about a subject or term you admitedly weren’t familar with Getting OFF THE X. Its in reference to, moving, Point Shooting. A very conterversial subject in some circles and taken as a no brainer in others. Ranges want you to stand still and plink away. The art is evolving. And yes I even understand their POV

So again I come to the end of a long discussion with you, without a clue what the beef really is. I truely don’t get it, but I’ve tried. Its getting to the point of diminshing returns and a time suck. Take care buddy, hope this stuff all works out for you.

[vwr32]

You don’t have to yell… geez. No wonder the lurkers are too scared to post. 😀

Edit: And don’t pretend you have something better to do… I know you’re just sitting there hitting the refresh button in the lurkers thread to drive CJ’s Dad up a wall. 😆

[unstpabl1]

Re:

[quote=\”vwr32\”][I took that to mean it wasn’t some shooting competition, rather some behavior that either fellow shooters objected to, or range personel saw as dangerous to other shooters on the firing line. Not sure I would feel safe if the guy in the next lane was doing maneuvers while shooting. For the hunters there teaching their kids gun safety, it’s probably counterproductive to their efforts too.

No V, It was more about finding places that will even allow the training seesions as well as what Mike pointed out. Also practicing on your own, though some do it with airsoft. Your right its best practiced on your own property. I live in An apartment in LA, I know my neighbors are better armed than I am 😆

But the big thing is it goes against much of the modern tech and makes people nervous. There is a large fence between the 2 camps it seems. Not a condemnatation against gun safety, but searching for places to practice advanced gunfighting techniques.

[unstpabl1]

Re:

quote \”vwr32\:

You don’t have to yell… geez. No wonder the lurkers are too scared to post. 😀

Edit: And don’t pretend you have something better to do… I know you’re just sitting there hitting the refresh button in the lurkers thread to drive CJ’s Dad up a wall. 😆

I live too close to CJ’s Dad to annoy him. But I have to admit Iwas thinking about running the views up 😈

Actually, I’m watching \”So You Think You Can Dance\” and thinking about taking a month or so to focus on flexibilty… OOuch

[mike-g]

Re:

quote \”vwr32\:

I took that to mean it wasn’t some shooting competition, rather some behavior that either fellow shooters objected to, or range personel saw as dangerous to other shooters on the firing line. Not sure I would feel safe if the guy in the next lane was doing maneuvers while shooting. For the hunters there teaching their kids gun safety, it’s probably counterproductive to their efforts too.

I wasn’t saying he was shooting a competition(I know from his post he wasn’t) I was just explaining where the terminology came from and it doesn’t necessarily have to be from unsafe gun handling just from the mentality of what that person perceives to be right even if it isn’t. He could have been in a shooting bay alone and not on a firing line for all I know . Maybe he wanted to practice forward,rearward, and lateral movement while shooting without the possibilty of injuring a sole and the range officer didn’t really want him to regardless of whether it was range rule or not. I don’t know. Just based off of other posts of his on another board I was pretty positive it wasn’t because he was advocating unsafe gun handling. I was just giving you an idea about the terminology and where it came from.

Now the BDUs. I was in the Army during Desert Storm and those were the Desert Uniform then. It was first used during the late 60’s and up until about 1993 when they switched to the DCU (Desert Camoflauge Uniform) around the time they were in Somalia. The DCU lasted until about 2005 and now they are using the ACU (Army Combat Uniform) which is used in both Desert and Woodland environments eliminating the need for two seperate pattern uniforms. The reason I said you were an old codger was because you were in the Army at the same time as I was if that uniform was around, and I first enlisted over 17 years ago. Also I saw you mention Hickam in another post and if you went to the Sinai during the time those uniforms were in use then you were probably in the 25th ID and being Infantry probably either 1/27 or 4/27 since you got to go there. I say all that because you could have had the distinct pleasure to have met me…lol… Interesting enough though, those old Desert BDUs are now what the Iraqi Army and Security forces wear now.

[vwr32]

Re:

quote \”mike_g\:

Also I saw you mention Hickam in another post and if you went to the Sinai during the time those uniforms were in use then you were probably in the 25th ID and being Infantry probably either 1/27 or 4/27 since you got to go there. I say all that because you could have had the distinct pleasure to have met me…lol… Interesting enough though, those old Desert BDUs are now what the Iraqi Army and Security forces wear now.

A Co, 4/87 but you got the 25th ID right. I left the army in 92. If you went to Sinai I was at check point 3 delta during our rotations to remote sites. I used to run to Sharm El Sheik for exercise and to get away from the checkpoint for a while ( http://www.sharmguide.com/ ). Beautiful place.

If we did meet, it’s a definite possibility I won’t remember lol. Sobriety wasn’t something I practiced in my off time. 😀

[mike-g]

What Quad was 4/87 in? I definately remember 4/87 but can’t remember the Quad or mascot….was that the gimlets or the we conquer mountains?

They have spilt the 25th up now. Part of it is at Schofield and part at Ft. Lewis(when not in Iraq or Afghanistan). A lot of the units are now deactivated.

[Author]

Posts