Home Forums Krav Maga Worldwide Forums KM Techniques & Krav Maga Books Choked with a bar (from behind both with and without space)

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  • #30135
    cjs-dad
    Keymaster
    quote \”Krav_4_Life\:

    -Being choked with a bar (both with and without space)

    Technique could include other straight ridged objects like a short stick or broomstick

    #55680
    giant-killer
    Member

    Okay, another one we’ve discussed. Maybe cut ‘n paste? I’d say try to turn your head in if possible, pluck on one end of the stick to facilitate this motion. Then turn all the way and give counters. You could also stomp on the attacker’s foot and hit the groin while still facing forward, in case you are unable to turn initially. Then pluck as soon as you can.

    _________________
    Giantkiller

    #55692

    Very simple: just turn around. The only way a bar on the throat can hurt you is by blocking off airflow by crushing the larynx. Simply looking to the side already removes the pressure of the bar on the larynx.

    So I would just turn around to face my attacker and do what I need to do to escape safely.

    #55695
    kmsf
    Member

    If it was \”very simple\” then we wouldn’t have any problems and no one would ever die from a choke. If someone could just simply turn around then wow, we could save alot of time not practicing anything. There is fear (possibly making you freeze) there is adrenaline (probably making you breathe hard, draining your energy ) there is pain, there is pain compliance (if you move it hurts worse) there is being off ballance(your own weight helping the choke)there is being at a disadvantage of surprise, there is being overpowered by someone stronger, there is loss of air making you weak, lightheaded, disoriented, loss of blood to the brain making you pass out – I think it’s easy too. 😮 Actually in a choke with a bar I would first tense up neck muscles then attack one hand since the holding of it to the throat needs both hands holding it evenly -once you can take one hand out of the equation then use an elbow- then try to turn and give more counters- has to be quick and before it really sets in – moment you feel the pressure on the neck or sense the attack. My 3 cents 😕

    #55728

    Re:

    quote \”KMSF\:

    If it was \”very simple\” then we wouldn’t have any problems and no one would ever die from a choke. If someone could just simply turn around then wow, we could save alot of time not practicing anything.

    I can easily say the same thing about the pluck, in that if it was that easy to remove someoneís hand during manual strangulation, no one would be murdered by that method. But of course, we all know that people get killed by manual strangulation. Personally, I donít like the pluck for dynamic chokes, but hey, that me.

    Turning around is certainly a learned response. I admit I learned this from my gf who trains at a self-defense school in her hometown. But after a few tries, it becomes an instinctual response. (Iíve even strangled my gf with a rope at completely random times with no warning, like while she doing work sitting at the computer. I do it with so much force it pulls her backwards right off the chair and she still manages to turn around and stop me before she hits the ground).

    Arguing about what might or might not work here is silly, try it and see for yourself. If you canít make it work, ditch it. It works for me, I like it, and so it is what I will stick with.

    The best way to know if something works is by trying it out, full speed, full force, and with no consent.

    #55738
    kmsf
    Member

    I didn’t mention a pluck. As I recall I said to attack one hand. That could be breaking a finger of the hand not necessarily a \”pluck\” But you probably have more experience attacking your unsuspecting girlfriend than I do 😯 , so after she simply turns around how does she follow up to escape you? I assume she is then face to face with you who is most likely bigger than she is- So what does she do then? And who attacks you in the same manner to give you all this experience? Her, or someone as proprotionally bigger than you as you are to her? After you simply turn around you kind of don’t mention the follow up- you say you then just do what you need to do to escape – that’s kind of vague. Please let us know what you learned from your girlfriends self defense classes she is in in her hometown. Thanks, I’ll be excited to find out what she tells you. 🙂

    #55739
    kmsf
    Member

    Just kidding hope you have a sense of humor. 😉

    #55746

    As soon as she turns around, her hands are in my face. In a real situation they would be ripping my face apart and my eyes out, all while moving behind me, putting me in a head crank. Even just putting the hands over the face and moving them around to simulate is unbelievably effective (talk about thought process interruption). It is just so annoying and uncomfortable that it overwhelms the body and immediately puts you in defensive mode. Even knowing what is about to happen doesn’t help much with countering hands in the face.

    After turning around you can go for a frame and combatives like in KM if you prefer and are more comfortable with that – whatever works. But creating distance gives them more opportunity to fight back, or pull a blade or whatever. Striking is also more strength/fitness dependent, and striking them can easily hurt you – broken knuckles, tooth in the knee or palm of the hand, blood transmitted diseases… If striking isn’t absolutely necessary, it is often best avoided I find.

    The beauty of the whole thing is that it is entirely independent of strength or fitness. (She is actually 2 inches taller than I am, but I have about 10 pounds over her.) Anyone or their grandmother can do it. In fact, girls with their long nails can be more devastating than guys! Try it sometime after class or whenever and see if you can make it work. Especially if they are not excepting you to turn around, as an attacker in real life probably wouldn’t, you turning around suddenly throws them off guard giving you another advantage.

    Keeping your attacker very close with their back to you in a head crank not only makes it hard for them to fight back, or pull a knife, but it gives you an excellent shield against multiple attackers. I like this defense because it applies strategy and behavioral tactics as well as physical ones.

    #55770
    kravjeff
    Member

    I agree with the turn, but also agree that initially the response was a little vague – Thanks for the clarification.

    I wonder if the defense for choke with push would work (bicep to ear, 90 degree pivot) from either front or back? If you could get your arm on the correct side of the implement (between the stick and the attacker), you may be able to clear one hand by pivoting, then dropping your elbow (as to trap the hands) .?.?.?

    #55807
    giant-killer
    Member

    Hmmm, that’s what I was thinking about for the other one, the one where you are pinned against a wall with a stick. I don’t think you would need to turn as we do for choke with a push in that case, just get the arm in, then have the elbow crash down. However, doing a bar arm choke defense (plucking the stick on one end, then turning in) may be quicker and simpler in this situation, because it may be hard to get your arm through the narrow opening between the stick and the attacker’s chest.

    _________________
    Giantkiller

    #55970
    mtlsd
    Member

    Re:

    quote \”KMSF\:

    After you simply turn around you kind of don’t mention the follow up- you say you then just do what you need to do to escape – that’s kind of vague. Please let us know what you learned from your girlfriends self defense classes she is in in her hometown. Thanks, I’ll be excited to find out what she tells you. 🙂

    Hi. I’m Strictly Street’s gf. The reason there really isn’t an explanation for a follow-up is because there are no set techniques to follow. I train at Senshido in Montreal. Maybe some of you have heard about it, and at that school we don’t really learn any techniques. We go by what they call the \”5 principles of retaliation\”, and we do whatever works best for us as long as it follows the 5 principles. We are shown some techniques so that we can add it to our \”tool box\” if it works for us, but we are never required to do anything in an exact way. Basically, the school provides us with analytical skills during a confrontation rather than teach us set techniques, and this includes de-escalation techniques (harder to do than it may seem), and how to psychologically set up our attacker so that if the situation does go physical, we have the upper hand.

    #56560
    cjs-dad
    Keymaster

    So Iím sitting in the lounge at the center talking to a bunch of people before a class and someone thought it would be fun to come up behind me with an Escrima stick to the throat and choke me.

    As I said I was seated he was standing above me from behind. His hands were close to my throat on the stick. I stepped down from the chair with my right foot while 2 hand plucking on the left side of the stick, tucked my chin in rotating my body to the left driving my left shoulder into him. As I was standing up twisted that side down and drove the end into his mid section several times then twist take away.

    The humorous part of this is he said and I quote ìI saw GiantKillers post in the forums and wondered what you would doî

    #56568
    giant-killer
    Member

    Ah, well, oops… 😳 Sorry… 🙁

    But, hey, it really does sound like a hilarious prank. 😀

    Actually, that’s a pretty good way to test your reaction, have people suddenly jump on you. Looks like you did just the right thing and the prankster will have some quiet time down at the ER to consider the consequences of his actions… 😆

    _________________
    Giantkiller

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