December 10, 2004 at 5:07 pm #28293keeiiiMember
The school I train in for Krav Maga wants at least 2 months of payment in advance. They also want me to make payments to a collection company. For 3 people in a family its $50.00 a month more without signing a yr contract. In the contract it says if I should quit training at this club I am liable for the payments. I truly enjoy the class and instructor. The instructor is not the owner of the school. It makes me feel like I am dealing with a scummy school. The 2 other clubs that I have trained at do nothing like this. This school charges way less for its TKD classes. I am uncomfortable with all of this.
How does your schools do it?
Is this the norm?December 10, 2004 at 5:26 pm #35211krunchyknucklesMember
My school has two options, either a 6 month contract at a given rate or 1year contract at a slightly reduced rate. They don’t offer a month to month option. There was a $99 processing fee, but I didn’t have to pay two months in advance. As far as having to make the rest of the payments whether you attend or not, that has been a pretty standard thing at any of the gyms or schools that I’ve attended or talked to. For me it just gives me incentive to attend regularly so I’m not throwing my money away.
Just my personal opinion, but if you are uncomfortable with the arrangement or don’t think you will attend enough to make it worth the money you’re putting out, I wouldn’t do it.
Good luck either way 🙂December 10, 2004 at 9:27 pm #35212brogersMember
Re: class paymentsquote \”KrunchyKnuckles\:
I dont like contracts personally and I am not sure why a school would require it if the instructor is positive and good at what they do they will keep you interested and you will want to continue I will say there is nothing worse than someone who is just there because they have a contract! it just takes away from those who want to be there. Good luck but the best impression is your first go with it and you will not go wrong you know yourself better than anyone elseDecember 10, 2004 at 10:04 pm #35213andreMember
Contracts have their goods and bads like anything else. But without a contract, the instructor, and owner have no guarentee of revenue. Nothing to say whether they will be in the red or the black. And it’s unreasonable to expect someone to be in business, with no guarentees. While people may like the class, and have good intentions of paying, the road to hell was paved with good intentions.
Not saying your wrong, just explaining why. But as I mentioned, all contracts have good and bad facets.December 10, 2004 at 10:16 pm #35214garddawgMember
Our school is only month to month, we offer no contracts. While I understand the point of view being expressed by students here, from a school owners point of view without contracts December is always hard. Many people decide to take breaks during the holidays and so our class attendance is low. Our income drops off, but our bills remain the same. On a monthly basis, trying to collect everyones dues is very time consuming, not to mention the precentage of students who every month say I’m only taking 15 of the 20 classes you offer so I only want to pay that %, or I’m not going to be here for 5 days so I subtracted that amount out of the dues. Those discussions become tedious and wear on you as an owner. Not knowing what your income will be every month can be taxing. So, for many contracts solve these problems. So, while we don’t do it, I sure can understand why some owners decide to. Just another opinion, give them a break, most of them are trying to provide the best place they can for you to train.December 12, 2004 at 4:06 am #35227brogersMember
Understood that the contact is there to help the stabillity of thier buisness but often students do not know how the school willl work out for them as long as there is a clause for them to part ways without breaking the students bank its all fineDecember 12, 2004 at 7:22 pm #35237andreMember
As I said, you take the good with the bad. Also, if its just as easy as making a call to cancel your membership, you come back to the same problem of uncertainty.
A person should be able to go into a school, and after a couple classes, and after looking at the environent, be able to tell if the school is good or not. People for the most part have good judgement, signing up at a school requires that you use it.December 12, 2004 at 10:18 pm #35240chguiseMember
All this talk on contracts, I thought I’d offer my take on them.
My school offers six month and year contracts. I started in a fitness program and signed up for six months. After the first class I was so sore if I hadn’t have had a contract I might have quit or at least found some excuse. This hurts that hurts, everyone knows the drill.
When they finally brow beat me into taking Krav, I signed a year contract right away knowing that if I didn’t, I may have tapered off and stopped all together (it was a bit touchy-feely for me at first). Not that I’m a quitter, but it’s so easy to let life get in the way of things. It’s so easy to stay in bed on Saturday morning instead of going to fight class like you promised your partner.
Now I know that there are alot of hard core guys out there that wouldn’t quit even without a contract and a couple of bad days or a few injuries, but most people are like me. It took time to become hooked. I think a contract helps people. Make them remember that they’re paying they might as well use it.
And now four years, phase training, and a year instructing Krav under my belt, I no longer need a contract to keep going. But it helped those morning when I wasn’t in shape and was still stuggling with coordination, when I was forty pounds heavier and a hell of a lot more timid then I am now (in fact I don’t think any of my students would call me timid).
Contracts are meant to force a commitment which is the biggest hurdle when it comes to any fitness or training program.
chrisDecember 13, 2004 at 3:29 pm #35247wimMember
I’m currently trying to find some martial arts training for my 7 year-old son. Unfortunately, the only decent place that’s close to me requires a year contract. Now, I can understand contracts for adults, but not for kids. That’s just plain ridiculous, in my mind. Kids can’t be expected to stay with anything for that long, and surely their parents shouldn’t have to continue paying the last 10 months of the contract when the kids is throwing a fit 2 months in because he doesn’t want to go…December 13, 2004 at 4:38 pm #35251ryanMember
No offense wim, but if your kid \”is throwing a fit\” about going to school, what do you do then? I don’t see it any differently for kids than for adults.
Contracts are only bad for the students that don’t want to pay. Other students benefit because the school owner is more able to update equipment regularly, pursue further training which benefits the students, offer a wider variety of pro shop items, expand class offerings, bring in quality guest instructors, properly market the school to increase the student base (which in turn supports the previous pros), etc. It is difficult to do these things if you don’t have a consistent income (not impossible, but difficult.)December 13, 2004 at 6:03 pm #35256wimMember
Well, I believe that’s all true, however, I think you should base all of that stable income off of your adult classes, and treat kids differently. My point is that an adult can be accountable for their actions. For instance, if I choose to sign up, yet I don’t go, I have to continue to pay. It’s my fault, my problem, and I have to deal with the consequences myself.
With children it’s different. Kids do things on a whim, because it’s cool, or because their dad is doing it. Then, they often then find that they don’t actually enjoy doing it themselves and decide that they’d like to quit. So, now I’m left forcing my kid to go to something for the next 10 months? I don’t feel that extracurricular activities should be forced. My kids are required to be involved in at least one activity at all times. They choose the activity. I like them to experience many, but mostly I like them to do something that they enjoy. I don’t want to, nor would I enjoy, fighting about going to a class every Tuesday and Thursday for the next 10 months.
Ultimately, it doesn’t much matter to me though, because however much I like the curriculum of the school that I’m speaking of, I won’t sign my son up for a year. I’d rather just let him take TaeKwonDo month to month.December 13, 2004 at 9:38 pm #35261chguiseMember
Unfortunately, that teaches the child that if it gets too hard they get to quit. My son has been in Karate for over two years now. There were times when he wanted to quit. He didn’t want to test in front of everyone, he didn’t like that mom was now teaching his classes. He’s testing for his blue belt this week.
The same whim that makes them join makes them quit. Children should know from a young age that life is about commiments. Quiting in cases of injury, or sudden time constraints, problems with school work, moving are all reasonable reasons to have to leave a program.
But just because a child doesn’t feel like it anymore doesn’t mean they should be alowed to quit. That’s just too easy.
And most schools offer a month try out before they require a sign up. If they don’t ask for one.
chrisDecember 14, 2004 at 12:00 am #35262keeiiiMember
ìContracts are only bad for the students that don’t want to pay.î
The first place I trained I stayed for 10 years. The second place 1 year, my son still trains there. I obviously have paid and never felt bad about paying! I feel if you want to quit anything you should just stop. It has nothing to do with not wanting to pay, which sounds like Ryan is an owner of a school to me. Thatís it. I just get a dirty feeling, like im buying a new car. When someone is telling me I need a contract to train. IT JUST FEELS SCUMMY. What a bunch of crap, If I quit. I need to pay? Its low. The owner of the club is the one who needs to make the commitment. Not its students. If I for any reason feel uncomfortable with the school, why should I have to pay another penny? Maybe my barber will want a contract next or the dentist, why not the restaurants I go to. If youíre good, people will come
The contract is a commitment. Yes, but I should not need to make a financial commitment to train. I think I should pay to train. I find it hard to believe anyone who says making a payment helps you go to class. Itís a trap. I feel like we should be on friendly basis, not forced to do anything, come or go. I should not be tied to a contract to train.
Did Imi Lichtenfeld make Darren Levine sign a contract to learn Krav Maga?December 14, 2004 at 12:32 am #35263johnwhitmanMember
The issue of finding a place that does or does not ask for contracts generally comes down to the professionalism of the school. Schools that are trying to build themselves up, add services, and invest in their own growth (which usually benefits all the students) want to know that their investment will pay off, so they ask for commitments from students just as a gym does. If your school owner charges monthly, it is generally an indication that he doesn’t have any long term plans for his school. Does this mean he’s a bad guy? No, it may be that he is very well-intentioned. But he’s also living month to month. It will be difficult for him to grow which means, in theory, that the atmosphere in the school will stagnate.
Of course, the opposite is true — school owners who demand contracts may find ways to cheat you, or disappear over night. You have to feel the school out for yourself.
The bottom line is that if you don’t want to sign a contract, don’t join that place.
For the record, we encourage our school to offer contracts (we also offer a month to month membership that involves no contract). We want every KM program to be consistent and successful, and contracts help that cause. The more successful they are, the more inclined they are to get further training, improve their skills, and become better representatives for us.December 14, 2004 at 12:41 am #35264guerriereMember
keeiii, I’m one of those people who benefits from a contract. I signed up for a year because I thought that all I’d learn in 6 months would be how to piss off a bad guy and by then I still wouldn’t be in good enough shape to run away from that pissed-off bad guy. So having incentive to go to class wasn’t my reason for signing on.
But… krav isn’t my life. I have a 40-hour/week job and an hour commute each way, and a part-time job on the side, and laundry, and bills, and my dog gets sick, and it sometimes takes 20 minutes to find a place to park near my school, and some days I’ve only had 4 hours’ sleep, and traffic sucks etc. There have been plenty times when I didn’t feel like going to class but I went anyway, then once there I got into it. Anything that pushes my butt toward the door is a good thing, considering how many things are pulling in the opposite direction.
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