May 9, 2008 at 5:42 pm #31026admin-d45Keymaster
Commando Krav Maga / CKM / Moni Aizik
Is in no way affiliated with the Krav Maga system being taught by KMWW, IKMA, KMAA, IDF, Wingate Institute Israel.
If your looking to train in an Israeli Self Defense System we urge you to do your homework on the facility your interested in.
The following comments reflect opinions of individuals from a broad spectrum of organizations and not specific to any one point of view.
Dear community members:
In an attempt to consolidate all of the posts on the Moni subject I had merged all of the threads into one large sticky and somehow while attempting to make them into one informative thread I changed the title and it was gone.
Admittedly I have no idea why it vanished. However I can assure you it was not my intention to remove the information. I was in fact trying to put all of it into one continuous thread.
My sincere apology for fumbling the ball and losing the content.
If anyone has the text written by morkravi I will gladly repost it.May 9, 2008 at 5:49 pm #65762mara-jadeMember
Re: CKM / Moni
Any chance of getting the original threads back via system backup? We wouldn’t have the posts from today, but it would be better than nothing.
Just a thought:wav:
I did see you merging cause when I logged in earlier, I saw the the thread saying like sticky Moni/…merged but when I went to open it, that’s when it went poof.May 9, 2008 at 5:53 pm #65763cjs-dadKeymaster
Re: CKM / Moni
Can’t parse individual threads on a back up. It would blast everything recent. Already thought of that. But if someone had subscribed to this thread they should have the body of the morkravi text in the email notification. I had already deleted my incoming email from the forums or I would have reposted it myself.
BTW MJ just a note to you since I know you admin other forums. If you change or delete the very first post in a thread it deletes the entire thread and all posts.May 9, 2008 at 6:02 pm #65765nickolas-cookMember
Re: CKM / Moni
No worries, since I’m sure this won’t be the only time this comes up again.
Seriously, I never knew jack squat about all the political stuff involved with Krav when I started. And you know what? Now that I do, I still don’t give a flying fig. It doesn’t change how I sweat or grunt my way through the drills in the least. And it certainly isn’t going to improve the power of my punch or kick by being affiliated with this or that school of thought.
I realize a lot of the passionate arguments stem from respect for the elders. I get that. But the elders also know a name is just a name, I hope.
That’s my two cents anyway.
By the way, you guys do an excellent job being diplomatic with this whole controversy while maintaining a great, fun and informative forum.
Thanks for all the work and stress involved.May 9, 2008 at 6:03 pm #65766mara-jadeMember
Re: CKM / Moni
I had to ask anyhow so just hoping. Makes sense on deleting the first post – that’s considered the master link to the rest. But seeing you can’t have 2 master posts, dunno what else you could’ve done – major bummer.
I think I subscribed so I may have the morkravi text -won’t know till later today. Hopefully someone will repost it before I do. Things happen Sean and you were just trying to make the topic easier for everyone to find.May 9, 2008 at 6:05 pm #65767cjs-dadKeymaster
morkravi has just replied to a thread you have subscribed to entitled – CKM / Moni Aizik / Imi – in the General KM Related Topics forum of Krav Maga Forums.
This thread is located at:
Here is the message that has just been posted:
I am currently a krav maga instructor in the IDF. The name Moni Aizik, whos real name is actually Menahem Aizik has been brought to our attention so many times over the course of the last year mostly by people who just want to know if what he is advertising is true or not. I am posting because the fact is that what Moni has done was create a lot of confusion about what real krav maga is and that is harmful to all instructors that dedicate themselves to krav maga.
No one here is criticizing Moni Aizik as an instructor. Itís well understood that he is a very talented martial arts instructor with numerous martial arts achievements that include being the Israeli youth league judo champion. What we have an issue with are his claims that relate to his association with krav maga and the Israeli special forces, so please, all of you Moni fans, supporters, and instructors we can respect your appreciation and love for ckm, but donít respond with your ëgo fight Moni, heíll beat you, and youíl be sorryí responses, it does not prove a thing about his claims.
What I am writing here is part of what I know and other parts of what other instructors I serve with and commanders that we checked with know to be fact. There are 2 parts to understand here 1 is the facts about krav maga as it is in the IDF from the beginning to today and 2 is how Moni is connected to krav maga and the army today.
1 ñ There are 2 official bodies that govern krav maga in the army first is wingate which is in charge of general krav maga for the entire army, and the second is the counter terror school which is in charge of krav maga for the special forces. In 1948 Imi came to serve in the IDF , created krav maga and was the first ramad krav maga (wich means the head of krav maga). At this point kapap became extinct and krav maga became the official system of the IDF. Imi retired from the army in 1968 (he NEVER came back to the army from retirement, as Moni says he was assigned to work with Imi on updating krav maga in 1974!)
In 1968 after Imi, Eli avikzar became the ramad krav maga until 1981, then Boaz Aviram until 1983, then Ilan Yona, then Shachar, and today Ran Nakash. No one on this list knows Moni as being an instructor to the IDF at any point in time.
Krav maga is a generic name for hand to hand combat in Hebrew, but it is NOT a generic system! It is a very specific system with specific strategy and tactics, and that is the system that the IDF uses. What Moni teaches has nothing to do with krav maga and any one can see that. His system may be good or maybe not, I am not going to give my judgement on it, but it is not what is required for the IDF or the IDF special units and the IDF would never adopt a system like that.
Letís talk now about facts about Moni and his attachment to the special forces today. Moni advertises that he served in a special unit called sayeret. There is no such thing as a unit called sayeret, sayeret is the term given to special units that conduct patrol operations, every unit that is patrol operations certified is called a sayeret. Out of all the people that are real veterans of the special forces that advertise themselves in public, Moni is the only one that refuses to say in wich unit he actually served in. He says that his unit of 74 soldiers was ambushed in the yom kipur war and that everyone was killed exept for 6 and that his unit was disbanded because of this ambush, anyone can check with the IDF office of morakim (wich means historical events, they have the files of all events every unit ever been through) if that is a true story. The Lieutenant Colonel in charge of that office served for 25 years in the army (15 years in sayeret golani) and confirmed that that is not a true story. There was no unit that was ambushed during the war and lost that many soldiers and was then disbanded.
Moni did not serve in an elite commando unit.
He was not assigne to Imi to ërevampí krav maga.
He had nothing to do with the advancement of krav maga for the IDF.
He has been to Israel several times over the last few years and gave complimentry seminars to regular soldiers. This is something that many of instructors from different organizations do. There is nothing official about it and it has nothing to do with the regular krav maga training any units get in the IDF. His system ckm is not use by any units in the army.
Last December Ran Nakash agreed to let Moni come to wingate to do a complimentry 3 days seminar to a few instructors. 7 instructors came, 5 from wingate krav maga division and 2 from a special unit that are friends of mine. The 2 from the special units did not bother going back for the last 2 days because of what they say after the first day they realize it is not a system that is relevant to them.
Moni claims that he trains the armyís sayeret units and the yamam. He does not train any sayeret units, every sayeret unit has their own krav maga instructors, we have ALL got together and discuss Moni Aizik, no one knows him and no one ever arrange to bring him in to train the sayeret units they are responsible for. If in fact Moni did come to train sayeret units it would be done at one place and one place that is the counter terror school (the lotar) it is fact that he has never been there.
As for the yamam, not only did we check with official channels at the yamam, but one of my best friends serving in a special unit in the army has a brother in law that is already 6 years in the yamam as a fighter. NO ONE AT YAMAM KNOW OF MONI AIZIK! He does not train the yamam. When we checked, the head instructor said beside saying Moni Aizik has never trained our unit and does not train our unit, first what sense does it make to bring a guy from Canada to train us when we have our own instructors and to fly to Israel from Canada once a month at around $1200 a flight ticket every time, do you realy think the yamam will pay that money!! The only person they confirm came to do a complintery seminar at the yamam was carlos Newton of the ufc.
Part of the reason why Moni does what he does is in fact because Mr. darrin Levin of L.A. krav maga use to own the trademark to the name krav maga, and that forced many instructors to make up names and stories about their authentic krav maga or made up systems to still be able to teach and advertise. Moni, like a few other instructors went further by trying to also take the attention away from L.A. krav maga by advertising that krav maga is no longer the system used by the IDF and that there are other secret systems. Some of these instructors even claim that Lotar is the system the special forces learn for hand to hand and that their system contains lotar! Lotar is the word for counter terror in Hebrew, it is not a system of any kind, it contains training in counter terror operations like hostage rescue on buildings, buses, and airplanes and shooting!
Although the krav maga that we teach here in the special forces is in fact different then American krav maga, the official system of the IDF regular forces and Special Forces is krav maga and only krav maga.
I hope people will be smarter about what they believe when they see instructors advertising!
May 9, 2008 at 6:31 pm #65771kvmorlMember
Re: CKM / Moniquote Nickolas Cook:
I understand what you are saying and agree to a certain point. In my opinion things like this can have an effect on the system we respect and train in the long run. It can miss-inform media, future students, create worse future legal battles that can affect the way we currently train ect.. .
These issues need to be addressed and formalized sooner better than later, Krav Maga is still growing very quickly and these are the stages where items like this need to be addressed.
We would hate to see in every corner “Pete’s Krav Maga” , “Joe’s Krav Maga” from ppl that maybe saw a DVD on Krav and made adjustments as they see fit.
Most ordinary folks who don’t read into all of these things and are not versed in MA who are just looking for a good self defense and see the words “Krav Maga” posted on Joe’s place, would not know any better. That can eventually degrade the business of certified formal Krav instructors all over the country and the system as a whole.May 10, 2008 at 3:06 am #65791blindfoldMember
Re: CKM / Moni
I would just like these all put together to maybe help and avoid controversy when eople come in and start
There may be some answers to questions before they occur. Hopefully it will help the forum and KM.
The less time we spend on useless thing the better.May 13, 2008 at 11:52 pm #65917jsumm54421Member
Re: CKM / Moni
Let’s try this again!
I can say, personally, that Moni teaches that Imi is the founder of Krav Maga! Also, Commando Krav Maga is not Krav Maga. What is written on some web page does not echo the words that I have heard come out of his mouth.
“Ran Nakash agreed to let Moni come to wingate to do a complimentry 3 days seminar ”
Why? Someone must have had enough respect for this man to allow him to do a seminar!
Note: If the training didn’t fit well with your friends, then I can respect their opinion. When training, I’m sure you will find things you like and dislike in all systems.
Unfortunately, I do not have access to credible resources to make any claims about this man’s military record. However, I know that he has a passion for what he is doing. He has some very sound techniques and concepts that are different from any system I’ve trained in. Do I need to ask anything more?
JayMay 14, 2008 at 12:16 am #65918benelliMember
Re: CKM / Moni
Unfortunately most of the posts in the previous thread went away when the admin made his snafu.
Many of us were students of his and are well aware of what he teaches and have personal knowledge of him directly. This is not hearsay read on a website someplace this is actual first hand experience with him as our primary instructor.
Moni is not teaching Krav Maga or anything that remotely looks like Krav Maga.
The term Krav Maga was plastered on his marketing materials and to already existing curriculum as a way to boost sales.
To paraphrase (Simon?) “if Ninja’s were still popular Moni would call his system Combat Ninjitsu and have a story about training in a cave under Mt. Fuji”May 14, 2008 at 12:05 pm #65931jsumm54421Member
Re: CKM / Moni
Again, Moni states that CKM is NOT Krav Maga!
Are you stating that there is a clearly defined and universally accepted system that is termed “Krav Maga”?
Our well informed poster wrote the following:
“Although the krav maga that we teach here in the special forces is in fact different then American krav maga, the official system of the IDF regular forces and Special Forces is krav maga and only krav maga. ”
This states that there is American Krav Maga. “IDF regular forces and Special Forces “is” krav maga and only krav maga”.
If he knows what he is talking about, than the word in front of the word “Krav Maga” seems to denote something different.
Commando, American, IDF regular forces, Special Forces are not the same thing if you follow this model.May 14, 2008 at 5:26 pm #65938alxMember
Re: CKM / Moni
All I know is what I was able to read on an official CKM website from the UK (which – suprise – has been under construction since we started discussing it here) and what he says on the “Combatant” DVD… and these sources tell me that he stated that he co-created Krav Maga…May 14, 2008 at 5:34 pm #65940benelliMember
Re: CKM / Moni
Your argument is semantics? Are you serious??
You know since I left his system I have really tried to conduct myself as a rational adult where this subject was concerned but itís clear to me that many people are still drinking the CKM cool aide and are walking in ignorance. Itís so frustrating to put your faith in someone only to be lied to time and time again. So I can understand as a ìcertified CKM instructorî you really need to believe in what your doing. Hopefully at some point you will take the blinders off and wake up to reality.
But I digress, lets return to your point of view for a minutequote jsumm54421:
I lost count how many times he >Moni< said TO ME PERSONALLY ìin Krav Maga weî blah blah blah
Thereís a big difference between splitting hairs and blatantly lying to your students and instructors.
He should have called his system Israeli Ground Fighting. Or even Israeli JuJitsu Iím sure that would have made the Brazilians happy.
For those of us who have trained in other systems we know what the real name for it should be:
ìIsraeli Stuff I Made UpîMay 14, 2008 at 6:21 pm #65942simonMember
Re: CKM / Moniquote Benelli:
LOL yeah something like that, I think I also mentioned something about tossin stars and smoke bombs but you were close.
Israeli Combat Jujitsu has a nice ring to it maybe we should suggest it to his publicist and marketing team?quote ALX:
Total and complete BS made up to sell videos and CKM licenses. But hey donít take my word for it Iím sure more and more EX-CKM guys will come out of the woodwork and validate this point.quote jsumm54421:
Yes Jay, you need to ask why so many students and instructors and even licensees of CKM came here to the forums to share their stories about being lied to. None of those guys are on the KMWW payroll most arenít even Worldwide students.
Either they woke up after all of their constant questions went unanswered or thereís a conspiracy against him.
Hopefully for your sake one day youíll ask questions the same as many others have and come to the logical conclusion.
Youíre being lied to.May 14, 2008 at 7:42 pm #65944jlMember
Re: CKM / Moni
Damn it! I wish my other posts weren’t lost in the consolidation, oh well.
I too came from the CKM Instructors pool. I too never got straight answers to relatively easy questions. I too left the CKM people for reasons many have already stated. He simply lied to us, to his current pool of instructors, and to anyone that ever read the advertising he uses. He has never proved that he is anything more than a guy that won some junior chamionships that should sell himself as nothing more than a blackbelt in Judo and Ju Jitsu. While he does have an engaging personality, it could be said that so does a snake, right before he swallows his prey. Moni is a master at extracting full value from each of his Instructors with very little sub-structure to assist them in teaching his Ju Jitsu oriented program. Using the Krav Maga name is nothing more than a marketing ploy to attract those that believe he is really teaching a commando style of Krav Maga, which he is not. One main complaint of many of us,is that we have shown him some of the defenses we have learned over the years and then Moni puts it into his curriculum as his own techniques created solely by he and he alone! Someday the rest will wake up to the fact that they too have been duped!! It’s not easy for me to say I got duped myself. I write this in the hopes that someone thinking about joining the CKM will do due dilegence in their research before spending a dime on this trumped up system. I am not in the KMWW either so I have nothing to gain by this post. I just want people to know that there are many of us out there that have seen the truth for what the truth really is. JL
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