Home Forums Krav Maga Worldwide Forums KM Techniques & Krav Maga Books Darren Levine’s pistol defense DVD, 1999

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  • #88237
    connorb
    Member

    Re: Darren Levine’s pistol defense DVD, 1999

    quote Don:

    Care to share what you think the learning points would be?

    I found the VHS tape and re-reviewd some of it.
    Put out by Bob Taylor/ Randy Wanner circa. about 1995.
    Unfortunately TRS probably still has their paws on the patent rights to it.
    Single action vs. double action, long rifles, multiple weapons.
    The main theme is Clear…Control…Neutralize.
    High(headshot),mid(centermass) and low(Abdomen) defensive techniques among many shown.
    When clearing, clear to the OUTSIDE. i.e. Rt. handed attacker, clear to his right, your left. (A 60% less chance of getting shot with the microsecond delay of the probable trigger pull.)
    “Soft block, circular block” jargon used frequently.
    By circular block they mean to block and also to simultaneously redirect the weapon’s line of fire by pivoting your body 90+ degrees at the waist. You will understand why when you see the plastic bullet impact patterns that these guys have across their chests from doing otherwise.
    Hours of other stuff, etc…
    If your interested, I’ll figure out a way to make a copy(VHS to DVD) and send one to you as long as it doesn’t violate some of the copyright laws on the books. I suspect Mr. Levine would have a definitive answer to that.
    Good luck.

    #88238
    don
    Member

    Re: Darren Levine’s pistol defense DVD, 1999

    quote ConnorB:

    The main theme is Clear…Control…Neutralize.

    Nothing new here.

    High(headshot),mid(centermass) and low(Abdomen) defensive techniques among many shown.

    Nothing new here.

    When clearing, clear to the OUTSIDE. i.e. Rt. handed attacker, clear to his right, your left. (A 60% less chance of getting shot with the microsecond delay of the probable trigger pull.)

    Not a big a deal as you think. The brand new no previous KM, LE, or MA experience recruits I teach gun defense to consistently beat the trigger pulls of their classmates – regardless of whether they “clear” to the right or left.

    “Soft block, circular block” jargon used frequently.

    Have to see it but we don’t do traditional “wax on/wax off” circular arm movements during gun threat defense and I wouldn’t recommend it.

    By circular block they mean to block and also to simultaneously redirect the weapon’s line of fire by pivoting your body 90+ degrees at the waist. You will understand why when you see the plastic bullet impact patterns that these guys have across their chests from doing otherwise.

    I understand redirecting and getting out of the line of fire just fine.

    If your interested, I’ll figure out a way to make a copy(VHS to DVD) and send one to you as long as it doesn’t violate some of the copyright laws on the books. I suspect Mr. Levine would have a definitive answer to that.

    Thanks but if/when I have some free time, maybe I’ll try to find it on my own.

    I appreciate you trying to share but I don’t see anything in your post that teaches me something that I don’t already know (principle wise) or something that the KM frontal gun threat defense (relative to what you posted) that I was taught doesn’t already take into consideration. Maybe you could post links to the videos that you saw that led you to believe otherwise. Btw, what is your leg to stand on to say or recommend “I highly recommend Krav instructors find and review the tapes as a possible addition to your training curriculum. It will be an eye-opener to some of the techniques that I’ve been seeing.” – how much KMWW training have you had and with whom? Have you watched the old school KMWW instructional videos being discussed here?

    #88242
    connorb
    Member

    Re: Darren Levine’s pistol defense DVD, 1999

    Just an observation. Disregard and Good luck.

    #88243
    don
    Member

    Re: Darren Levine’s pistol defense DVD, 1999

    I guess that answers my questions. Good luck too.

    #88247
    connorb
    Member

    Re: Darren Levine’s pistol defense DVD, 1999

    quote Don:

    I guess that answers my questions. Good luck too.

    ‘Well, since you’re asking…yes, I have the Line of Fire Video. I purchased it over twelve years ago the first time that I delved into Krav.(Sidetracked by Boxing/Muay Thai yet again)

    Anyway, for those of you who wish to see a video that will take the more practiced gun-disarming techniques to well beyond the basic Rote and understanding level’s, I recommend the previously mentioned video. It takes the techniques to the Application level and even delves slightly into the final level of learning that we all know is Correlation to the street.(Plus you get to see a guy getting shot multiple times with plastic bullets)

    However, If you are completely certain that what you are teaching or are being taught is the one and only tried and proven method that you will ever have to know, by all means, practice it.

    #88248
    catapult
    Member

    Re: Darren Levine’s pistol defense DVD, 1999

    Connor, no one is claiming that Krav has a monopoly on gun defenses but you seem to be implying that the Krav defenses don’t work against an airsoft and/or a real gun and instructors need their eyes opened to that “fact.” The fact is the defenses are routinely practiced at many schools against pellet/paintball guns and they work quite well if done correctly. John Whitman has a couple of short videos using paintball guns so you can see exactly where the “bullet” goes. And of course the IDF has plenty of experience using the defenses against real guns.

    #88249
    don
    Member

    Re: Darren Levine’s pistol defense DVD, 1999

    Ok, so you answered 1 of my questions. How much training have you had in KMWW and with whom?

    #88250
    kmyoshi
    Member

    Re: Darren Levine’s pistol defense DVD, 1999

    I would like to see this video for my training purposes. thumbsup

    For what it’s worth, I don’t think Don is trying to chastise you. From your description, it sounds pretty much the same as to what is being taught at KMW and according to videos online, what other KM organizations teach.

    quote ConnorB:

    Long story short, I highly recommend Krav instructors find and review the tapes as a possible addition to your training curriculum. It will be an eye-opener to some of the techniques that I’ve been seeing.

    The way I interpreted this is that what we’re being taught now is totally different and/or wrong from what is being shown in the video. Also keep in mind that it is possible that some techniques have been modified from the curriculum since 1999. KM is continuing to add/modify or remove techniques when better ones are “discovered,” e.g: brainstormed.

    #88253
    don
    Member

    Re: Darren Levine’s pistol defense DVD, 1999

    Chutzpah, or what strikes me as Chutzpah, gets to me sometimes… But, I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt that his intentions were good…

    #88254
    kmky
    Member

    Re: Darren Levine’s pistol defense DVD, 1999

    Here is a video of Amir doing the same defense on Fight Science https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rAVh9BLXKg perhaps it will help with your understanding.

    #88256
    catapult
    Member

    Re: Darren Levine’s pistol defense DVD, 1999

    The fight science video was fun but their emphasis was on how super-humanly fast Amir is. No question about that but John Whitman’s video shows students doing the defenses against paintballs. (They just did the initial move so they didn’t break any attackers’ fingers.) I don’t know how much training they had but they seem more representative of Joe or Jane Kravist.

    Only one guy got shot during a rather long session with lots of paint splattered on the wall. My takeaway is the defenses work fine for people with normal abilities as long as they don’t telegraph the initial move.

    http://www.kravmagaalliance.com/media/video-demos/#weapons-defense

    #88257
    kmyoshi
    Member

    Re: Darren Levine’s pistol defense DVD, 1999

    I want to work with RAM pistols! And shock knives for that matter…

    Thanks for sharing those vids catapult.

    #88258
    cjs-dad
    Keymaster

    Re: Darren Levine’s pistol defense DVD, 1999

    quote KMyoshi:

    I want to work with RAM pistols! And shock knives for that matter…

    Thanks for sharing those vids catapult.

    I might know a guy who can handle that request. thumbsup

    #88261
    don
    Member

    Re: Darren Levine’s pistol defense DVD, 1999

    Hey Yoshi said that electricity doesn’t bother him and those shock knives are no big deal!

    #88267
    connorb
    Member

    Re: Darren Levine’s pistol defense DVD, 1999

    quote KMyoshi:

    I would like to see this video for my training purposes. thumbsup

    For what it’s worth, I don’t think Don is trying to chastise you. From your description, it sounds pretty much the same as to what is being taught at KMW and according to videos online, what other KM organizations teach.

    The way I interpreted this is that what we’re being taught now is totally different and/or wrong from what is being shown in the video. Also keep in mind that it is possible that some techniques have been modified from the curriculum since 1999. KM is continuing to add/modify or remove techniques when better ones are “discovered,” e.g: brainstormed.

    Disregard my previous recommendation. God knows I don’t want any of you guys to fork over any money to the grease ball Company that was selling that tape. Anyway, It was quite awhile ago and it was VHS after all.

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