- This topic has 18 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 7 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
hey guys, i have a question with regards to the evolution of attacks that we may be facing and their respective defenses. i was in orlando during the magic games and witnessed a fight and it struck up my curiousity. when i was growing up in the 80’s and 90’s (im 33 now) the WWF/WWE were very popular and i enjoyed watching what i thought were real fights. my friends and i would get together and wrestle using many of the techniques that we saw on the wwf. the figure 4 leg lock, bear hug, headlock, full nelson,”chicken wing”, etc.i also think that this influenced the types of attacks people would use in the streets. an attacker may have tried using a headlock or bear hug. now that MMA has increased in popularity i have never seen a headlock or a wwf style bear hug being used. i think that attackers may also see MMA and use those types of techniques in their attacks. so after watching this fight between two drunks, it was clear than neither was trained in the traditional sense but both seemed to use MMA type moves. is krav maga addressing these “new” types of attacks like developing defenses against muay thai clinch, gullotine chokes and rear naked chokes? i would still use groin strikes and eye gouges where the opportunity arose but dont know of specific defense techniques like the ones ive seen against hear hugs and headlock which seem to be used less often now in this MMA era
Re: evolving attacks and their defenses
Yep, in my classes we’ve covered all three of those attacks. Krav has always been evolutionary and forward thinking so dealing with new trends in fighting is a big part of the system.
Re: evolving attacks and their defenses
Yes, we have addressed all of these attacks. Several of us instructors as of late have given our input on how to handle these attacks and make some changes to the sytem becasue of the influence of MMA. There is a process before it gets implemented in to the system and some of the techniques will not get added.
Everything has to be easily taught, fit our principles and guidelines and should also address slight differences of attacks. This is what a lot of instructors forget when trying to change or tweak KM defenses. It may be a great defense, but its only good for that one situation; then its not good enough. That is not how Krav Maga was designed to address these type of situations.
The techniques also have to fit in to the Force training curriculum and should be complintary to another area in the curriuclum to reinforce everything.
The main thing is that the National Training Center is always looking to progress the system, but the techniques taught need to fit in the system as a whole.
Re: evolving attacks and their defenses
that is great to hear. i know that haganah fight is supposed to be evolutionary as well but their curriculum still doesnt address these types of MMA derived attacks. not criticizing the system at all just made a note of that while i was evaluating different schools and training centers back in NYC as im moving back “home” within the next few months (september is the target date) and i saw that they still use the 18common street attack scenarios and they dont seem to fit now. my martial arts journey continues…jkd and km seem to compliment each other pretty well though.
Re: evolving attacks and their defenses
The stuff that gets added, if any, will fit within the principles and guidelines of Krav Maga.
Haganah takes from BJJ, Karate and Krav Maga making it not Krav Maga.
Look at the direction MMA has gone and its more to Krav Maga, especially on the ground. How many submissions on the last TUF show or the Last few UFCs? Very few. All are fighting the takedown and if they do get takedown they try and get back to there feet immediately. This is way different than it was 4 – 5 years ago. Everything should progress and so will MMA.
Re: evolving attacks and their defenses
that is correct, i have enjoyed watching the evolution of mma. in the 1990’s everyone swore that all fights went to the ground bc royce gracie had essentially used it as a “sucker punch” technique against stand up fighters. then people evolved and trained ground fighting and that nullified the surprise of being taken to the ground. then recently people have been realizing that you need to be well rounded and be effective in all ranges of combat. most mma fighters are comfortable on the ground and very effective on their feet. they tend to stay within their comfort zone be it on feet or ground, but most fights recently have demonstrated that fighters dont want to stay on the ground and they learn to sprawl, and scramble back up to their feet as soon as possible. this is very similar to both my jkd and km training. i dont believe in rolling on the ground for 20 min for a submission when this guys buddy is trying to stomp my head. i have trained in bjj and im able to hold my own on the ground but i rather not be there
Re: evolving attacks and their defenses
quote Oneness:Look at the direction MMA has gone and its more to Krav Maga, especially on the ground. How many submissions on the last TUF show or the Last few UFCs? Very few.Excellent point. As of late, most fights look like kickboxing matches. And that’s between fighters that are accomplished ground fighters.
Re: evolving attacks and their defenses
I’m level 1 training at the KMW Sherman Oaks HQ, and one of my concerns is instructors not continuing their education and learning the newest techniques, which translates into me not learning new techniques. So, how does a defense get added to the system, and how does that knowledge get disseminated? I don’t want to get into a fight and know how to defend against a bear hug and not a muay thai clinch, whatever that is. I have a ways to go, and I don’t want to jump the gun, so to speak, but as techniques evolve I want to be on the cutting edge. So to speak. 🙂
Re: evolving attacks and their defenses
There are several ways already set up to make sure instructors are getting the information – continuing education seminars(KM2U), to expert series, to black belt only training to even just the initial phase training.
For students, you just need to know you are training at a certified location with a certified instructor to be up to date. When an instructor attends any of the courses above, your instructor will usually get a participation or belt certificate. This lets you know they are continuing with their education.
Keep in mind that instructors do take breaks from phase/ expert training like students from regular class. If its a concern, ask. Personally, I would not be offend if a student asked me the last time I trained at the NTC or attended a KM2U, it lets me know they care about there training and what they are paying for.
Re: evolving attacks and their defenses
quote jstrauss:I’m level 1 training at the KMW Sherman Oaks HQ, and one of my concerns is instructors not continuing their education and learning the newest techniques, which translates into me not learning new techniques. So, how does a defense get added to the system, and how does that knowledge get disseminated? I don’t want to get into a fight and know how to defend against a bear hug and not a muay thai clinch, whatever that is. I have a ways to go, and I don’t want to jump the gun, so to speak, but as techniques evolve I want to be on the cutting edge. So to speak. 🙂Well your in the right spot, the actual technique committee meets at the Nobel location in Sherman Oaks.
There is a continual ongoing discussion of the techniques and if you have noticed the Mon/Tue high level classes are made up of your instructors for the most part and guess what we are doing.. discussing the techniques.
If and when something changes we are quick to share it with each other.
Saturday I did the advanced gun seminar taught by head of instructor training for KMWW Kelly C. Wed I took a private on Machine Gun techniques (slung) Wed night I reviewed it with Kirsten to make sure I was doing it right.
Last time Oneness was here we spent hours going over knife material. And I stole a ton of fight material from him.
Trust me no oneís sitting around resting on their laurels. thumbsupRe: evolving attacks and their defenses
quote jstrauss:I don’t want to get into a fight and know how to defend against a bear hug and not a muay thai clinch, whatever that is.Another thing to bear in mind is that krav is a principle based system. So even if you haven’t yet learnt how to deal with a specific attack in a fight you shouldn’t just freeze up. Instead improvise based upon what you’ve learnt so far.
Re: evolving attacks and their defenses
quote CJs Dad:Well your in the right spot, the actual technique committee meets at the Nobel location in Sherman Oaks.
There is a continual ongoing discussion of the techniques and if you have noticed the Mon/Tue high level classes are made up of your instructors for the most part and guess what we are doing.. discussing the techniques.
If and when something changes we are quick to share it with each other.
Saturday I did the advanced gun seminar taught by head of instructor training for KMWW Kelly C. Wed I took a private on Machine Gun techniques (slung) Wed night I reviewed it with Kirsten to make sure I was doing it right.
Last time Oneness was here we spent hours going over knife material. And I stole a ton of fight material from him.
Trust me no oneís sitting around resting on their laurels. thumbsupOh! And don’t forget, Sean, there are periodic revisions to the instructor manuals we all get at different levels of completion (Phase A, B, C, Expert 1, 2, etc). They just re-shot the photos for the updated Instructor Manuals last month, so once that gets compiled, it’ll get distributed through the training centers again.
Did I actually get laurels when I finished Phase A? I was a little dizzy during the written part of the exam, and I don’t remember much of the rest of the day. 🙂
Mario
Re: evolving attacks and their defenses
quote Kior:Another thing to bear in mind is that krav is a principle based system. So even if you haven’t yet learnt how to deal with a specific attack in a fight you shouldn’t just freeze up. Instead improvise based upon what you’ve learnt so far.Well said!
Re: evolving attacks and their defenses
Wow, thanks for all your replies, everyone. I look forward to advancing through the system. 🙂
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
