Home Forums Krav Maga Worldwide Forums KM Techniques & Krav Maga Books Fun with straight stab counters

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  • #30194
    giant-killer
    Member

    Well, okay, so fun may not be exactly the right word, but I wanted people to open the thread… 🙂

    Here’s the question:

    On p312 of the KM book, the hand defense against straight stab is shown. The way it is shown in the book, the redirection is made, then the defender’s arm slides toward the attacker’s elbow, then reaches down to grab the attacker’s arm and only then is the first counter punch is made. After that punch, the defender goes to a two-handed control immediately and continues from there.

    Now, I remember that – in staying with the KM tradition of always giving an immediate or almost immediate counter – for a long time we would make the redirection and then give a punch almost at the same time as the redirection, maybe a split second after, then slide in and grab the attacker’s arm, give a second punch, then two-handed control and continue from there.

    Has this been officially changed? Actually, the way it is shown in the book now, with only one counter after grabbing the attacker’s arm is similar to the way it is shown in Imi’s book.

    Actually, I never much liked the almost immediate counterpunch, feeling that it tended to interfere with my defensive motion (I felt I wanted to turn my shoulder one way for the defense, but another for the punch). Also, it may be hard to reach and one might get overanxious and go for the punch before the redirection has been made, which could result in the defender getting cut or stabbed. On the other hand, if you can pull it off, it’s fast and might disturb the attacker enough so that it will enable you to better pull of the rest of the defense.

    Now, in the case that only one punch is given in the defense instead of two, would it be alternatively possible to do the redirection and then give that punch as one is sliding in toward the attacker (not immediately as we used to do, but still before reaching down and grabbing his arm), then go to a two-handed control from there right away (without giving a second punch after the grab)?

    Doing this might make for a quicker initial counter, but it may be weaker as well, because there is no control yet of the attacker’s arm. Also, trying to go to a two-handed control with both arms at once may be slightly harder to pull off than securing the attacker’s arm with one hand first, give the punch, then grab with the second hand. On the other hand it’s a bit safer than the almost immediate quick punch we used to do.

    So, are all of these options viable?

    a) Give an almost immediate counter, then slide in and reach down to grab the arm, then give a second punch, then two handed control.

    b) Redirect first, then punch as you slide in, then reach down to grab his forearm/hand with both of your hands simultaneously.

    c) Redirect, reach down and grab with one hand, then counter, then get the second hand on the attacker’s hand (as shown in the book).

    Or is one version always preferred and why? Of course, I’m assuming that after getting to a two-handed control one continues with more counters to the groin and a cavalier to strip the knife or take the person to the ground, but that would be the same in all of these circumstances. I was just wondering about the first part of the defense.

    Okay, this wasn’t fun at all, just confusing. Sorry. 🙂

    _________________
    Giantkiller

    #56362
    cjs-dad
    Keymaster

    GK

    Look at my kick defense answer for a rushing in attack. That technique works well in this scenario as well.

    #56375
    giant-killer
    Member

    So, the first scenario you mentioned sounded somewhat similar to what we do in KM, except you seem to grab the attacker’s wrist, then pull it forward? Instead of redirecting with your own wrist or forearm? Then the punch is delivered as you are stepping in?

    If you are trying to grab the wrist, I suppose it’s possible that you may miss, that’s why we usually use the forearm for a redirection as it makes for a longer defense. Honestly, the straight stab is probably my least favorite of all KM defenses. I like the redirection, but the control seems a bit shaky, especially against a much bigger guy with huge sweaty arms that are impossible for my sweet little hands to grab tightly. 🙁

    So, I kind of like the idea of skipping the almost immediate counter we used to do, concentrate fully on the redirection and then give a punch only after getting a bit more control. As long as I have only one hand on the knife arm, I don’t feel I have much control, as soon as that second hand comes on and I turn into the cavalier position, I feel a whole lot better.

    Of course, skipping the punch completely would have dangers, too, as you haven’t hurt your opponent yet, so giving at least one punch would probably be a good idea and in that sense I was wondering, mainly, would it be better to give that punch while stepping in (sort of like in Sean’s slightly different defense), or grab the knife arm first for more control, THEN give the punch (as shown in the book). One is a bit faster, the other a bit more secure.

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    Giantkiller

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