good video on gun defense and what happens when you grab the barrel

[chocolate-soldier]

Re: good video on gun defense and what happens when you grab the barrel

Here’s another utoob clip from featuring the live fire slide holding drill:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Mme4J309D8

Once again – seems relatively harmless with no problems
like scorching or digits blown off..

The only ‘risk’ IMO of holding a semi-automatic in that way would be for
a catastrophic failure to occur such as a cartridge blocking the barrel when another round was fired – but you’d think there’d be one in 10 billion chance of that happening just as someone’s performing a KM gun disarm…

For those who might not used to the workings of a semi-automatic – like the members from the UK where handguns are banned (but where, strangely, criminals can still easily obtain them) – this slow motion clip shows the firing / slide / shell eject / new round stripping action very well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmzIS8ianCA

[chocolate-soldier]

Re: good video on gun defense and what happens when you grab the barrel

Some great animations of how a semi-automatic works:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fg0-vfb6c7Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKRMcTlbWTs

[aviatordave]

Re: good video on gun defense and what happens when you grab the barrel

quote Chocolate Soldier:

The only ‘risk’ IMO of holding a semi-automatic in that way would be for
a catastrophic failure to occur such as a cartridge blocking the barrel when another round was fired – but you’d think there’d be one in 10 billion chance of that happening just as someone’s performing a KM gun disarm…

And even that is not much of a problem. A blocked handgun barrel doesn’t normally cause a catastrophic failure. Most quality handguns will push a lodged bullet right out the end of the barrel, with usually just a bulge where the blocked one was. Catastrophic failures are usually caused by overcharged handloads, or other mechanical failures that allow out of battery firings.

But this is a great thread, I’ve been shooting rifles, shotguns, and pistols since I was a little kid, and if someone would have asked me, I would have been sure you’d get severly burned holding a bare hand over an ejection port.

I don’t know how or even if the disarm techniques differ for a revolver, but bad things can happen if you did the same thing with a revolver:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsUiRoggh2Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu3RO3Lr4fM

Mythbusters did a similar test using a “hand” made from chicken bones and skin, and it blew right threw the bones. I saw the pictures that prompted the story, and I was sure it was fake. Not any more.

[f-factory]

Re: good video on gun defense and what happens when you grab the barrel

quote AviatorDave:

I don’t know how or even if the disarm techniques differ for a revolver, but bad things can happen if you did the same thing with a revolver:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsUiRoggh2Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu3RO3Lr4fM

Mythbusters did a similar test using a “hand” made from chicken bones and skin, and it blew right threw the bones. I saw the pictures that prompted the story, and I was sure it was fake. Not any more.

Hi,

a colleague (Instructor) of mine did a test were he wrapped a revolver with several layers of firm bandage were the hand would grab, to simulate a hand. The result was that the bandage was ripped apart by the gas eminating from the revolver when fired, even where it was not tightly wrapped.
If you grab a revolver with the shown technique be prepared to receive serious burns and damage to your hand…

Then again, gun techniques are for extreme situations, after all…

Regards
John.

[Anonymous]

Re: good video on gun defense and what happens when you grab the barrel

should krav students be taught basic gun techniques for using the gun one they disarm an attacker . what is your view . i think it flippant to teach a disarm then not show the person how to use the weapon at their disposal . what are your views

this is the basics you could teach in my opinion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-652qTIQ0g

take a look at some of my other vids if you are at a loose end . thanks

http://www.youtube.com/user/francokrav

[michaelmall]

Re: good video on gun defense and what happens when you grab the barrel

The hot dog video seems odd,I have shot revolvers
for a long time and have never seen this before.

[jrodf4]

Re: good video on gun defense and what happens when you grab the barrel

In a real life situation you are not gonna worry about the barrel being to hot or getting pinched.

Most likely you will have a bad guy pulling,punchin,kicking and shooting while you are fighting for your life……:OhMy:

Be safe & god bless….

[gregg]

Re: good video on gun defense and what happens when you grab the barrel

I wouldn’t advice any of my student to use a gun they would have taken from an opponent. these are some reasons:

• If you’re not trained to use a firearm, there’s no way a youtube video gonna teach you to, even basically.
• You don’t know if the gun is well maintained
• You don’t know if it’s not a blank pistol (wich really looks like veen if you tap rack it)
• You don’t know if it an airsoft gun (the same)
• You may not know how to use it (safety catches, magazine realeases, etc)

I would only teach this:

• Use it a blunt objet (heavy, sharp, ergonomic) untill your opponent is REALLY out of duty.
• When you’re safe, call IMMEDIATLY the police, advicing them you are in possession of a firearm taken from an agressor
• Pointing the barrel downward press any button you find near the trigger guard untill the clip drops
• Still pointing the floor, rack the slide back at least 3 times
• Wait for the cops with the barrel down and holding the gun BY THE SLIDE or put it in a secure container (car trunk, locker, etc)

However, if the **** really hits the fan and after taking this gun you realize you’ve got to return some firepower and there’s no way you could flee or acces your own weapon, this is what I would advice to a at least basically TRAINED shooter who KNOWS the gun model:

• Take cover from the shootings with the taken pistol
• Realease the clip and rack the slide 3 times
• Visually check the first round in the clip (blank, airsoft, etc)
• Insert the clip and rack the pistol
• Check safety’s
• Return fire

[chocolate-soldier]

Re: good video on gun defense and what happens when you grab the barrel

quote Gregg:

However, if the **** really hits the fan and after taking this gun you realize you’ve got to return some firepower and there’s no way you could flee or acces your own weapon, this is what I would advice to a at least basically TRAINED shooter who KNOWS the gun model:

• Take cover from the shootings with the taken pistol
• Realease the clip and rack the slide 3 times
• Visually check the first round in the clip (blank, airsoft, etc)
• Insert the clip and rack the pistol
• Check safety’s
• Return fire

Fwiw the vast majority of (non military) ‘gun fights’ and shooting incidents are over within a few seconds eg: 2-3. Its all about solving problems under time pressure.

If you’ve removed the clip & racked the slide 3 times on a genuine semi automatic with a chambered round there won’t be any round left to check as it would have gone sailing off into the cosmos with racking movement #1

If it were me having just performed a disarm in something like the above scenario, I’d like to think I’d create some distance & while doing that: tap the mag, check for brass, rack if needed & immediately get in the game…or flee in a zig zag / seek cover.

Even if the BG no longer appeared to pose a threat, there’s no way I’d unload or otherwise disable the weapon…

[gregg]

Re: good video on gun defense and what happens when you grab the barrel

quote Chocolate Soldier:

Fwiw the vast majority of (non military) ‘gun fights’ and shooting incidents are over within a few seconds eg: 2-3. Its all about solving problems under time pressure.

I didn’t knew about that, anyway if you pop up and try to shoot a non fire gun, you probably gonna get shot for that. If you have a good cover, you could survive the few seconds needed for the do the procedure

quote Chocolate Soldier:

If you’ve removed the clip & racked the slide 3 times on a genuine semi automatic with a chambered round there won’t be any round left to check as it would have gone sailing off into the cosmos with racking movement #1

This manoeuver is actually to check that the slide is working properly as it could be stuck with a lot if things. You can chek the top round in the clip.

quote Chocolate Soldier:

If it were me having just performed a disarm in something like the above scenario, I’d like to think I’d create some distance & while doing that: tap the mag, check for brass, rack if needed & immediately get in the game…or flee in a zig zag / seek cover.

Of course, if I can make some distance, I won’t even shoot back, i’ll just flee. ****s happen anyway…

quote Chocolate Soldier:

Even if the BG no longer appeared to pose a threat, there’s no way I’d unload or otherwise disable the weapon….

According to me it’s just a pesonnal feeling. I’m never carrying a gun when out of duty and I know how much people have been shot by “safe weapons” or police officier getting jumpy by seeing an armed man on the street.

Anyway, all of this is just simple theory, when you’re in a fight, you’re in a fight and it’s dirty…

[chocolate-soldier]

Re: good video on gun defense and what happens when you grab the barrel

quote Gregg:

According to me it’s just a pesonnal feeling. I’m never carrying a gun when out of duty and I know how much people have been shot by “safe weapons” or police officier getting jumpy by seeing an armed man on the street.

Anyway, all of this is just simple theory, when you’re in a fight, you’re in a fight and it’s dirty…

Following the Jeff Cooper safety rules add quite a few layers of defense against negligent discharge & unpleasant results from a ND. Finger off the trigger is a big one as guns just don’t ‘go off’ by themselves except in extremely rare cases involving mechanical defect.

Jeff Cooper’s Rules of Gun Safety

RULE I:ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Cooper

[gregg]

Re: good video on gun defense and what happens when you grab the barrel

Hi Chocolate soldier. I guess everybody who has been even basically trained in shooting has gone trough these Jeff Cooper’s rules. In absolute theory, a gun won’t go bang unexpectedly if they are followed.

However, i’ve no idea of how much people, even trained, have shot themselves or other people by accidents with firearms carried in a too casual or too jumpy manner. I cannot really talk ’bout US, but here in Belgium, a police officer WILL be jumpy if he spots you holding a gun in you hand unless you hold it in the casualest way possible (By the slide, pointing downward ie).

Anyway you made me realize that I forgot to cover two important points in the scenario where you’ve taken the gun, ran to safety, called the police and unloaded it.

Even if you’ve gone trough the unloading procedure, you still have to take care to point the barrel downward and keep your fingers off the trigger.

Anyway, as I’ve said, it’s also a matter of personal opinions ’bout that. SURE it is the person holding the gun that kills and not the gun itself. BUT if this person has no gun, then it won’t happen FOR SURE 😉

[wiccaman]

Re: good video on gun defense and what happens when you grab the barrel

Hi

Whilst not strictly following on from the above this thread seems to be as good a place as any for this tale:

I was quite an avid pistol shooter here in the UK (before they were banned). There was an incident at my club where someone had cleaned his revolver using WD-40 (do you have that in the States? It’s a kind of oil based lubricant in a spray can).

Anyway he went straight out on the range but there was still quite a lot of WD-40 still in the barrel. Of course, on his first shot the bullet compressed the oil and it ‘dieselled’ (i.e. exploded under compression).

He was alright (albeit somewhat startled) but the gun looked like something from a Bugs Bunny cartoon. The top strap came off and the cylinder splayed open like a flower.

There’s a moral there somewhere.

Regards

Al

[sicpuppy]

Re: good video on gun defense and what happens when you grab the barrel

quote wiccaman:

… but the gun looked like something from a Bugs Bunny cartoon. The top strap came off and the cylinder splayed open like a flower.

Al

I would SURELY love to see pics of that!!!

[wiccaman]

Re: good video on gun defense and what happens when you grab the barrel

quote ghostvet:

I would SURELY love to see pics of that!!!

Unfortunately this was in the days before everyone had mobile phones with cameras. It did go up on display for a while. More as a warning than anything else.

[Author]

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