Gun Advice??

[miriam]

So last night my wonderful ex-boyfriend took me to a local gun range to teach me how to shoot, handle a gun, etc. etc., because I’m considering buying one for personal protection in my home. I never thought I would, but my situation is such that there’s currently no risk of shooting anyone except myself or an intruder and more importanly, in the past year, I’ve seen two prowlers outside my place – one of whom I didn’t realize was casing the joint and I actually confronted him and (I think) scared him off. I know – not the smartest thing in the world, but sometimes I’m a little slow on the common sense stuff. :dunno:

I fired some kind of Smith & Wesson 40 caliber semi-automatic and a 38 revolver. And by the way, I gotta say I really think the krav training comes in handy b/c I was amazed at how steadily I could maintain the gun while I squeezed off rounds. I actually hit the spots where I was aiming on the target at distances between 12 and 20 feet.

My understanding is that in a panic situation, a revolver is better since it’s less likely to jam and I’m less likely to make a mistake in operating it.

But anyway…I haven’t made up my mind yet, so I’m asking for whatever advice you wanna throw my way. My ex has good advice, but his opinions come from the, uh, “other side of the legal fence” so to speak. Since I know many of you out there have experience through military, law enforcement, middle america militia (ha, ha, ha…), I thought this forum would be a great source of info.

So…I’m all ears! :D:

[vwr32]

Re: Gun Advice??

rofl middle america militia

I’ve been kicking around the idea of a weapon to keep around the house myself. Personally, I’d go for something along the lines of a Glock 9mm in the handgun arena, or a shotgun with a pistol grip.

But if u want more power, u could try the .600 Nitro Express: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZL797pOAZ0

[jay99]

Re: Gun Advice??

My .02 – If you are talking strictly home defense you may want to look at a shotgun. Under stress and cover of night if you are not a great shot or really comfortable with a handgun it may not be the best way to go. A shot gun is more of a point and destroy weapon.

[cjs-dad]

Re: Gun Advice??

I think Jeremy might be a really great person to answer this since he writes for Guns and Ammo.

I have my own opinions on the subject but certainly not as much experience as someone like him.

[mike-g]

Re: Gun Advice??

Miriam are you going to practice with whatever gun you decide to buy? I don’t mean once a week but do mean more than once a year or one time when you first buy it. That can mean a lot in choosing which gun is right for you. If your not going to practice that often I think a Mossberg model 500 shotgun would be the perfect home defense gun. It’s 18 1/2 inches long so it’s easier to move through the house with than a full length shotgun. You also don’t have to be as accurate with a shotgun in order to hit your target as you do with a pistol or rifle. That’s a plus under stress. That is also the drawback to a shotgun as well (if you need to be real accurate). If you are going to practice with any regularity then you want a gun that fits your hand, is reliable, and delivers good stopping power. So that means the gun frame size/ grip must fit well in your hand, the gun isn’t prone to stoppages or breaks easily, and caliber . A Glock in my opinion fits all of that. They come in 9mm, 40 caliber, 45 caliber, and 45 GAP . The only time i have ever seen a stoppage on one is if the persons grip was so weak they limp wristed it and it failed to feed the next round. They don’t break very easily either. I prefer 45 caliber for home defense and used to carry the Glock model 21 on duty at my last Department but now carry the 40 caliber model 22 on duty. I also shoot competition with the Glock 9mm model 17 and 40 caliber model 35. I have shot more than 80k rounds through my various Glocks and reliability has never been an issue. The only reason I would reccommend a revolver over a Glock would be for the ability to conceal it (in my pocket) but that isn’t what your going to be using it for so I wouldn’t get one.Your also limiting your available shots to 5 or 6 with a revolver. Most people may not shoot more than that in a self defense situation but there are cases where they have or the Police have and I would rather have the extra rounds that an auto loader has than need them and not have them. A revolver may be more reliable than a piece of crap gun like a Kel Tec, Lorsen, or High Point but most of your main gun manufactures..S&W, Taurus, Glock, Springfield…etc
will have quality guns that I would choose over a revolver. Whatever caliber you choose your need to choose a self defense ammo as well. Like Ranger SXT or another available defense round. You don’t want to use target ammo as self defense ammo. Hope that helps a little.

[miriam]

Re: Gun Advice??

quote Jay99:

My .02 – If you are talking strictly home defense you may want to look at a shotgun. Under stress and cover of night if you are not a great shot or really comfortable with a handgun it may not be the best way to go. A shot gun is more of a point and destroy weapon.

Thanks for your good .03. Yup, that’s what my ex recommended as a ‘fool proof, can’t miss’ option. I’m not too keen on the size and related storage issue, tho.

[miriam]

Re: Gun Advice??

quote vwr32:

But if u want more power, u could try the .600 Nitro Express: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZL797pOAZ0

Nice video! Another example of a guy trying to use something he clearly isn’t equipped to handle, no?

[vwr32]

Re: Gun Advice??

quote Miriam:

Nice video! Another example of a guy trying to use something he clearly isn’t equipped to handle, no?

lol, yeah pretty much.

quote mike_g:

If your not going to practice that often I think a Mossberg model 500 shotgun would be the perfect home defense gun.

Practice or not, I’m trying to picture what it would be like in a home invasion and factoring in what I might experience. If I’m in a position where I it’s time to go investigate a noise downstairs, how accurate am I going to be if I just woke up or it’s dark. It almost becomes a situation similar to clearing a trench (going around corners etc), and I can’t think of a better weapon than a shotgun with short barrel and pistol grip. The Mossberg 500 comes in that variance, but it’s still a pump action isn’t it?

What semi-auto shotguns would be a good option?

[miriam]

Re: Gun Advice??

quote mike_g:

Miriam are you going to practice with whatever gun you decide to buy? I don’t mean once a week but do mean more than once a year or one time when you first buy it. That can mean a lot in choosing which gun is right for you. If your not going to practice that often I think a Mossberg model 500 shotgun would be the perfect home defense gun. It’s 18 1/2 inches long so it’s easier to move through the house with than a full length shotgun. You also don’t have to be as accurate with a shotgun in order to hit your target as you do with a pistol or rifle. That’s a plus under stress. That is also the drawback to a shotgun as well (if you need to be real accurate). If you are going to practice with any regularity then you want a gun that fits your hand, is reliable, and delivers good stopping power. So that means the gun frame size/ grip must fit well in your hand, the gun isn’t prone to stoppages or breaks easily, and caliber . A Glock in my opinion fits all of that. They come in 9mm, 40 caliber, 45 caliber, and 45 GAP . The only time i have ever seen a stoppage on one is if the persons grip was so weak they limp wristed it and it failed to feed the next round. They don’t break very easily either. I prefer 45 caliber for home defense and used to carry the Glock model 21 on duty at my last Department but now carry the 40 caliber model 22 on duty. I also shoot competition with the Glock 9mm model 17 and 40 caliber model 35. I have shot more than 80k rounds through my various Glocks and reliability has never been an issue. The only reason I would reccommend a revolver over a Glock would be for the ability to conceal it (in my pocket) but that isn’t what your going to be using it for so I wouldn’t get one.Your also limiting your available shots to 5 or 6 with a revolver. Most people may not shoot more than that in a self defense situation but there are cases where they have or the Police have and I would rather have the extra rounds that an auto loader has than need them and not have them. A revolver may be more reliable than a piece of crap gun like a Kel Tec, Lorsen, or High Point but most of your main gun manufactures..S&W, Taurus, Glock, Springfield…etc will have quality guns that I would choose over a revolver. Whatever caliber you choose your need to choose a self defense ammo as well. Like Ranger SXT or another available defense round. You don’t want to use target ammo as self defense ammo. Hope that helps a little.

Wow, Mike! That helps a lot. Thanks for such a detailed and specific response. I appreciate it. If I decide to get one, I would definitely plan to practice more than once a year – I mean, that’s the fun part, isn’t it?

I think I get the benefits to a shot gun, but I’m just not sure I’m comfortable with the idea of a gun that size. And although I’ve thankfully never been the victim of a crime, I believe based on my prior experiences with other emergency/stress situations, that I handle the pressure really well and keep my cool. It’s only after it’s over that I tend to realize what happened and then freak out. 😛 So, I think with the proper practice to gain the skill and comfort level needed, I’d be a-okay with a handgun.

I will continue my research though b/c I’m early in this process and still contemplating the decision. Thanks again!!!

[alamocitykid]

Re: Gun Advice??

Miriam: I certainly second the thoughtful response of mike_g. While there are many good handguns available, I am particularily fond of Glocks–for ease of handling, shooting, and reliability. I have three–9mm, 45auto, and 45GAP. Glocks come in “small, medium, and large” in each caliber (subcompact, compact,and full size).

Hopefully, your ex-boyfriend is experienced with handguns and firearms safety and is a good teacher. I often see husbands or boyfriends with little or no knowledge or shooting experience except that “male hunting gene” giving bad and/or dangerous advice at the range.

Also, be sure you are aware of your state’s gun related statutes including the use of deadly force.

Good luck with what I think is a smart decision. I believe all women should learn to shoot and be equipped with a firearm for self-defense.

[miriam]

Re: Gun Advice??

quote Alamocitykid:

Hopefully, your ex-boyfriend is experienced with handguns and firearms safety and is a good teacher. I often see husbands or boyfriends with little or no knowledge or shooting experience except that “male hunting gene” giving bad and/or dangerous advice at the range.

Also, be sure you are aware of your state’s gun related statutes including the use of deadly force.

Good luck with what I think is a smart decision. I believe all women should learn to shoot and be equipped with a firearm for self-defense.

Thanks, Alamocitykid! To answer your thoughtful questions and allay any concerns, yep, the ex-beau is experienced with use and safety and most importantly, he’s good at teaching it b/c if he can’t get me to understand it, then his knowledge isn’t helpful.

And, never fear, I’m an attorney (or wait, maybe you should fear…), so I am informed as to CA’s gun laws and use of force. It ain’t like Texas, where you can defend property with use of deadly force, or shoot an intruder in the back while he’s running out of your house, ya know? rofl2

I’m sorry … I hope you know I’m just poking a little fun here.

[downforlife76]

Re: Gun Advice??

quote Alamocitykid:

Also, be sure you are aware of your state’s gun related statutes including the use of deadly force.

I was wondering if anyone was going to get to that point, Alamo. The laws in California are rediculous. Study them VERY carefuly or may be answering to some serious charges. Firearms are not good for detering creeps lurking around outside in this state!!!

My personal preference for home defense is a shotgun. You mentioned that you can keep a cool head in a bad situation, but a “use of deadly force” scenerio can leave some otherwise cool headed individuals in a state of panic. I’ve been shot at more times than I can count and I still prefer to keep a pump action shotgun (Mossberg 500) by my bed rather than a pistol. The reason for this is not that I’m not comfortable with my aim or tactical shooting abilities, but the simple fact that if you’re woken up from a deep sleep, your fine motor skills aren’t going to be up to par, even with that sudden rush of adrenaline. If you point that bad boy at a doorway with some 12ga 00 buckshot, you’re going to hit your target.

Someone suggested a Mossberg with a short barrel and pistol grip for ease of movement inside of a house. While this is the rig i use in combat and for home defense, I would not recomend it for a beginner. I’ve seen those things fly out of guys hands when they aren’t expecting the type of recoil you get from firing a 12ga. without a buttstock. If you’re getting a shotgun, get a pump action (so it won’t jam) with a buttstock (so it doesn’t rip your thumb off… ouch!).

As far as revolvers vs autos, it’s honestly a personal preference. As has been stated in here before, revolvers won’t jam unless you fill them with epoxy glue. However, you obviously have some ammo restrictions.

Another reason I prefer autos is that you can easily find models with a rail to attatch a tactical light. Some old-schoolers try to preach against them for home defense, but I’ve seen their effectiveness. When propperly utilized, you can momentarily stun the attacker allowing you to put accurate fire where it needs to be. Shot placement is critical in a close-quarters low-light environment because if you hit the attacker in the arm or even the stomach, they can raise their weapon and fire just out of reflex. The tac light gives you that fraction of a second of confusion (of your opponent) and extra light to get the sights center mass and squeeze the trigger.

*********MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THIS POST!!!!!************
It definately sounds like you are planning on training with your weapon (whichever one you chose) as much as possible and that is a very good thing. Keep in mind, though, that shooting at a range with plenty of time to take your shot in a low stress environment will only improve your general accuracy. As with Krav, you need to train tactical scenerios. There are several decent tactical shooting schools in the LA area that will instruct the public for a fairly decent price. Once you have taken these courses, ensure that you review the material and take a refresher course at least once a year (on top of your regular range time).

Obviously, plan out scenerios and what you will do if you are in a situation where you need to use your weapon. Brainstorm, brainstorm, brainstorm. Every time I move, I make a tentitive plan and continuously work to improve it until I have something that I feel is fool proof… Then I try to re-evaluate it at least once a month.

Okay… This post is getting extremely long. Pick a weapon that you are comfortable with and that works for your environment, train effectively and often, and ALWAYS be anal about weapons safety.

I was an urban combat and close-range/long-range marksmanship instructor for my old unit so if you want to get a group of people together who need to learn close range tactics for your house… drop me a PM! thumbsup

[giant-killer]

Re: Gun Advice??

If you are living inside an apartment building, how likely would it be that a bullet would penetrate one or several walls and maybe hit people in adjacent units? How about a shotgun? Could it tear a large hole in a wall and how far would the bullets fly? This may be something to consider, last thing you’d want to do is accidently shoot a neighbor while trying to scare off an intruder.

_________________
Giantkiller

[mara-jade]

Re: Gun Advice??

quote Miriam:

Thanks, Alamocitykid! To answer your thoughtful questions and allay any concerns, yep, the ex-beau is experienced with use and safety and most importantly, he’s good at teaching it b/c if he can’t get me to understand it, then his knowledge isn’t helpful.

And, never fear, I’m an attorney (or wait, maybe you should fear…), so I am informed as to CA’s gun laws and use of force. It ain’t like Texas, where you can defend property with use of deadly force, or shoot an intruder in the back while he’s running out of your house, ya know? rofl2

I’m sorry … I hope you know I’m just poking a little fun here.

Yeah Miriam we Texans forgive yarofl2 I had to say I LOVE your Happy Bunny Avatar – got the 16 month and 365 day calendars.:D: You’ve gotten some great info from the folks here. I knew the gurus would come out and help.

[vwr32]

Re: Gun Advice??

quote Giant Killer:

If you are living inside an apartment building, how likely would it be that a bullet would penetrate one or several walls and maybe hit people in adjacent units? How about a shotgun? Could it tear a large hole in a wall and how far would the bullets fly? This may be something to consider, last thing you’d want to do is accidently shoot a neighbor while trying to scare off an intruder.

_________________
Giantkiller

that’s another reason i favor the shotgun route

the downside would be having to remove buckshot from a pet that might have been investigating the intruder at the time

[Author]

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