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Re: Gun Advice??
quote Giant Killer:If you are living inside an apartment building, how likely would it be that a bullet would penetrate one or several walls and maybe hit people in adjacent units? How about a shotgun? Could it tear a large hole in a wall and how far would the bullets fly? This may be something to consider, last thing you’d want to do is accidently shoot a neighbor while trying to scare off an intruder._________________
GiantkillerYou can use rapid expansion rounds and slower rounds that will not penetrate through a wall in order to minimise the risk. Shotguns have relitively low penetration and range as well.
Whether in home defense or tactical situations, you always need to consider the possibility of collateral damage. In a home defense situation, you should plan the areas where you want to engage an attacker (in any kind of defensive position you have this advantage). Also keep in mind with almost any kind of conventional round, they will signifigantly slow down once they hit something. Just try not to fire with a window in the background.
J-
J-Re: Gun Advice??
The ultimate gun for home defense is the one you feel comfortable with.
If you don’t feel comfortable, you won’t practice. buy the largest caliber you can effectively control and respond with in rapid succession. If you like to shoot the .40 S&W and feel comfortable, knock your self out.
As far as brand name, the you get what you pay for role comes into play. Glock, Sig, H&K, so on and so forth. If you get into .45acp you may have a whole different set of problems with manufacturers.
9mm is effective and a larger capacity, 45acp is a “man-stopper”.
If you don’t hit the target you can be shooting a howitzer and it won’t matter. The shotgun is in the howitzer category. The reason a shotgun is effective has to do with not knowing what a person wants when they come too you house. You need intimidation and power. Nothing is a more effective people mover than the pump of a shotgun in the dead of night.
If an intruder came in with a sign saying he only wanted the DVD why would you effectively destroy everything around the person and the DVD. Assuming you practice and don’t destroy the stuff on the way to the DVD and the stuff while he’s running out the down.If you opt for a revolver, the trigger pull is something that needs to be practiced. The trigger takes time to get used to and can be difficult to control during stress. If you pull to hard the gun will move when your trying to shoot.
As GK mentioned look into ammo for homes. Don’t shoot the neighbors dog, at the very least. This is also where practice comes into play. If you shoot out all of you windows, they won’t stop even the best ammo.
Hopefully this helps.
Re: Gun Advice??
i agree with everyone who says a shotgun, what’s the scariest sound in the world?, the rack of a pump shotgun, add a surefire light to it and you add the blinding light to the face!
if you don’t have any prior experiance with a hand gun, don’t buy one!, if you do i would say a 38 revolver with a glasser safety slug (it’s a mini shotgun shell, that stay’s intact untill it hits the target, then it opens up and delivers the shot), it used to be big in home defense because of the lack overpenetration, all the force is delivered to target,auto’s jam, get dirty,springs wear out or break, if you have exp in handguns i agree with the glock people, but only in 40s&w or 45 auto , i don’t like the 45gap i hear that it lack’s stopping power(i feel bad for our local sherrif dept they just changed to the gap) also if you go with the glock you can add the flashlight too! it should blind the other person and also add a little weight to the front to keep the recoil down
but what do i know i’m just a conserative gun owning red neck(who’s NOT in a milita) who lives in the midwest and have owned gun’s for 20 year’s and helps in a local gunshop when they get busy
what ever you decide make sure YOU decide, not your ex boyfriend, or anybody else,this is YOUR gun it need’s to fit YOUR hand, YOU need to be comfortable with the recoil,YOU need to know how to maintain it, i cant remember how many people have wanted to buy a hand gun for the wife or girlfriend and have picked up a $800.00 kimber, just to find out they’ve NEVER touched a gun before
good luck in whatever you decide
russell
Re: Gun Advice??
quote Giant Killer:If you are living inside an apartment building, how likely would it be that a bullet would penetrate one or several walls and maybe hit people in adjacent units? Could it tear a large hole in a wall and how far would the bullets fly? This may be something to consider, last thing you’d want to do is accidently shoot a neighbor while trying to scare off an intruder.
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GiantkillerWell, lucky for me and my neighbors, my apt. has no shared walls (a quad-unit building which has an exterior foyer that separates me from the adjacent apt.) – unless you count the ceiling, and if I’m blasting a shotgun up in that direction, then that would mean I must be in a really bad position! :OhMy:
quote mara_jade:Yeah Miriam we Texans forgive yarofl2 I had to say I LOVE your Happy Bunny Avatar. :D:Hey, thanks Mara. Yeah, Happy Bunny rocks!! Clearly created by a woman, don’tcha think? I switched my avatar from the “glamour” shot I put up previously. No, it wasn’t really a glamour shot – how cheezy! – but a photog friend took some shots of me and I thought I’d get some use out of them… but then I decided the krav forum boards weren’t really the most appropriate place for ’em. ha, ha, ha…
BTW, were you at MAIA in Vegas last July? I apologize for not remembering for certain, but I DO remember (from what I can remember) that we partied with a super fun group from Texas. Good times!!! thumbsup
quote russell:i agree with everyone who says a shotgun, what’s the scariest sound in the world?, the rack of a pump shotgun, add a surefire light to it and you add the blinding light to the face! if you don’t have any prior experiance with a hand gun, don’t buy one!, if you do i would say a 38 revolver with a glasser safety slug (it’s a mini shotgun shell, that stay’s intact untill it hits the target, then it opens up and delivers the shot), it used to be big in home defense because of the lack overpenetration, all the force is delivered to target, auto’s jam, get dirty,springs wear out or break, if you have exp in handguns i agree with the glock people, but only in 40s&w or 45 auto , i don’t like the 45gap i hear that it lack’s stopping power(i feel bad for our local sherrif dept they just changed to the gap) also if you go with the glock you can add the flashlight too! it should blind the other person and also add a little weight to the front to keep the recoil downbut what do i know i’m just a conserative gun owning red neck(who’s NOT in a milita) who lives in the midwest and have owned gun’s for 20 year’s and helps in a local gunshop when they get busy
what ever you decide make sure YOU decide, not your ex boyfriend, or anybody else,this is YOUR gun it need’s to fit YOUR hand, YOU need to be comfortable with the recoil,YOU need to know how to maintain it, i cant remember how many people have wanted to buy a hand gun for the wife or girlfriend and have picked up a $800.00 kimber, just to find out they’ve NEVER touched a gun before
good luck in whatever you decide
russell
Thanks, Russell. Great advice! YOU ROCK… even if you are a self-admitted “conserative gun owning red neck who lives in the midwest”… it’s okay tho’… both of my folks are from the midwest.
But, yes, my plan is to spend more time at the range and try out a bunch of different guns to get the one that feels best and that I personally like.
Re: Gun Advice??
quote russell:…what’s the scariest sound in the world?, the rack of a pump shotgun…So true…
My friend had an intruder one night. He lived in an apartment that had a main room (kitchen, living room, etc…) and a loft where the bedroom was. It was all very open (other than the bathroom) so sound traveled very well.
When he heard the door he grabbed his shotgun out of the closet, racked it, and said something like “who is there?”. The next thing he heard was “Oh [expletive]…” and the sound of a couple of people making a hasty exit.
For the record… I also subscribe to the “the one you’re comfortable with” rule. I personally like revolvers. I don’t know why, I just feel more comfortable with them and I feel I am more accurate with one.
I think my friend’s sig is a much more practical gun and it is more “fun” but for home defense I like the gun I can operate with a blindfold on while dizzy if I had to. For me that’s a very simple S&W 357.
(also… I am ashamed to admit that at present ALL of my firearms are in another state. I married a gun fearing woman and the fact that we live in a very small town combined with the fact that I don’t hunt makes it very hard to convince her that a gun is necessary for home defense).
Re: Gun Advice??
Yeah, I can see how a shotgun would have that psychological effect. Much scarier than just a handgun. Something to consider.
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GiantkillerRe: Gun Advice??
Miriam – I happen to think that was a nice picture you hadthumbsup Nope, I’m not that MAIA but sounds there was a good time going on there:D:
Someone comes in my house and they try to hurt my pack, that sound of CHINK-CHINK would make them think twice.
Yeah, you shooting up, that WOULD BE BAD
Re: Gun Advice??
quote russell:if you have exp in handguns i agree with the glock people, but only in 40s&w or 45 auto , i don’t like the 45gap i hear that it lack’s stopping power(i feel bad for our local sherrif dept they just changed to the gap)Whoever told you that doesn’t know what they are talking about.
Re: Gun Advice??
Sometimes reports don’t tell “all” or the story
Muzzle speed, energy, and so on don’t always tell what kind of stopping power a bullet is going to have. The bullet may or may not expand or transfer inertia quiet to someones liking.
I had a friend who worked for a magazine and he tolds me that all of these tests are done but, some are based on who advertises with the magazine and spends the most $$$$. They can be given a better evaluation by only showing the good side of things.
So we may only be seeing 3 out of the 7 tests done.
:dunno:
Re: Gun Advice??
Haha… The ammo stat war has begun.
I was looking into picking up a weapon chambered for .45 GAP, but decided against it. Quite a few people I had talked to said that they really didn’t notice much of a difference. On top of that (when I was looking, anyways), the rounds were too expensive. I can understand the arguments for the GAP, but I honestly see no need to pay extra money to switch.
J-
*Edit: Just to be fair, I haven’t had a chance to fire the GAP yet, so my opinion leaning towards the .45 ACP is a bit biased
Re: Gun Advice??
I don’t really know much about ammo but a Gun store I used to frequent (Kings) had a big metal bucket they had shot a round into that was filled with water or sand (not sure) and the exit hole on the back was ridicules so I went with those rounds LOL. Something called Black Talons. A friend told me they don’t make them anymore. But I still have several boxs.
Re: Gun Advice??
Um, bucket filled with water, yeah that’s gonna make a huge hole, even with a small bullet…not much to go by really..
Re: Gun Advice??
Well like I said not an issue I’m really well versed in. All I can say is I was told those were the best rounds so I went deep and bought a bunch of boxes. Maybe one of you guys who know a little more can expand on what they are. I did a Google search on them and theres tons of info on the round but it’s all new info so I don’t know enough to make an educated statement or comparison.
Re: Gun Advice??
quote CJs Dad:Well like I said not an issue Iím really well versed inWith the internet, everyone can play. thumbsup
Anyway, here’s what wikipedia said about ‘Cop Killer’ bullets:
quote :OverviewThe Black Talon bullet is a jacketed hollow-point bullet with perforations designed to expand sharp edges upon impact. The bullet included a Lubalox (molybdenum disulfide) coating, ( though widely misreported to be Teflon) giving it an unusual black appearance compared to copper-jacketed or lead bullets. The Lubalox coating was to protect the barrel rifling, and did not give the bullet armor-piercing capabilities. This coating in fact is still widely used on many of Winchester’s rifle bullets today. The bullet also had a unique appearance with a star shaped perforation on the black tip, giving it the nickname Starpoint.
The bullet was designed in 1991 under the supervision of Alan Corzine, who at that time was VP of research and development for Winchester. The round became well known amongst shooters, law enforcement, and dealers as a very effective bullet. Col Leonard J. Supenski of the Baltimore County police department said “It has the stopping power that police officers need and it is less likely to ricochet or go through the bad guy.”
Controversy
The ammunition was targeted by those opposed to handguns, and the reputation was very different in the public, and eventually the Talons became to be known by the moniker “Cop-Killer” bullets. The hype of the Black Talon ammunition was the black moly coating on the bullets themselves. There were false rumors that the bullets were armour piercing and could penetrate vests. The reality of the issue at the time was for doctors and medical personnel who had to remove the bullets. Once expanded the tips had sharp barb like tips to shred the area around the bullet. These sharp points were reputedly causing cuts to the hands and fingers of the medical workers and exposing them to greater risk of infection, however there are no documented reports of this actually happening.
In 1996 a lawsuit was filed (McCarth v. Sturm, Ruger and Co., Inc., 916 F.Supp. 366 (S.D.N.Y., 1996) claiming that Olin Corp should be liable for a shooting spree based on the design, manufacture, marketing, and sale of Black Talon ammunition. The claims were dismissed against Olin because it was held that the bullets were not defectively designed.
Winchester bowed to pressure and in 1993 removed the ammunition from public sale for a time, and eventually law enforcement also bowed to the pressure.Current status
Winchester voluntarily pulled the ammunition from the market completely in 2000. The “Ranger SXT” ammunition sold today by Winchester is essentially the same ammunition without the black Lubalox coating on the bullet. Among shooters, the running joke is that SXT stands for “Same eXact Thing.”
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