December 17, 2005 at 8:13 am #42416
Lately I have got a DVD from that undisclosed instructor. 😀 Well, let me put it this way, he is average.
Gun retention. We are teaching gn retention to police and military – also for special units and presidential bodyguards – however our relationship with presidential bodyguards started, when they tested KM with gun retention. Simply pulled simunition gun on me, when tried to take the gun, they made gun retention. I took the gun, we signed the contract.December 18, 2005 at 7:38 am #42443
Good job!! 😉December 20, 2005 at 1:00 pm #42492
BTW, we had lot of time dedicated for gun retention when I was participating on LE instructor course, also on military instructor course. Cant wait to participate on SWAT instructor course…:)February 6, 2006 at 5:38 pm #44194badge54Member
Some of this can be debunked through a couple of drills. Take some of the static sterille training enviornment out of the drill and add some reality.
First tell the person holding the gun out to retract it as soon as he sees you move. Sometimes they are fast enough to retract.
Next have them count out loud from one to ten and tell them that once he sees you move to retract. This time he willl be less sucessfull.
The reason, An attacker is not standing in front of you waiting for you to attack. He believes he is in control. Nor is his MIND forming a plan to counter it is busy telling you what to do. The mind is still the fastest computer on earth but it still tries to complete a thought before switching to the next. By having them count, simulates the attacker telling you to ‘get down,’.. ‘put your hands up,’.. ‘give me your wallet.’ By attacking during their thought process you are gaining the edge to get ahead of thier OODA loop. The technique will work.
Badge54August 29, 2006 at 1:34 pm #49364lotarMember
The undisclosed instructor average ?????
I am 100% certain you have never met nor trained with him!!!!!
Before posting trash check the guys cv and qualifications.
LotarSeptember 9, 2006 at 10:36 pm #49551hotdogMember
I have good experience.
My experience is green belt in goju ryu
from the Sensei Marvin Labatte at
Central New York Karate School in East Syracuse
New York and Green Belt in Shotokan from
Sensei Shujiro Sugiyama, JKA, Chicago , Illinois.
I practice Krav Maga with Master Pena, Skokie , Illinois
but am still unranked in this new system.
I also work as a Statement Adjustment Counselor
with the Chicago Police, Area #3.
When someone pointed a gun at me, one time,
my adrenaline went WAY up, unintentionally
I hit he guy hard with a hard
goju ryu side kick to his kneecap.
I used a side arm shotokan block simulataneously,
with power beyond what I ever dreamt I could do.
With good training, you may be able to protect yourself,
but I think the best disarm technique, is to
avoid people who act like they want to pull out their guns.
I do not know how I did it to this day.quote \”Anonymous\:September 10, 2006 at 6:27 am #49558lotarMember
Well done Hotdog.
If it worked it works!!September 12, 2006 at 5:50 am #49589
Gun retention for civilians, 101:
1) Put them in the line of fire
2) Pull the trigger
3) Call 911…
Don’t over think it. Your a civilian and your liabilty is lesser. If someone grabs the business end of a gun… then \”giddy-up\”! It makes defending yourself a lot easier.
Be safe.September 12, 2006 at 9:34 pm #49597
But what if he grabs it from the side, or is out of the line of fire before you have a chance to pull the trigger? Sometimes we work on gun techniques and then do it with some resistance and when a struggle ensues, both the defender and the attacker are trying to stay out of the line of fire themselves but are simultaneously attempting to turn the gun toward the other guy. If you are the person holding the gun during such a struggle, how would you move to make the other person let go, or how would you turn the gun toward him, so that you can then shoot at him?
GiantkillerSeptember 13, 2006 at 5:18 pm #49605
You just move your feet… again dont over think it. Put them in the line of fire. It is very simple… unless they know Krav Maga. 😉 We did it in LE long before we knew about Krav Maga LE. The defenses seldom change in Krav Maga, it’s the same for retention. Keep it simple.
Think about ways to avoid using your gun at close proximity to your opponent. Run through the scenarios and work through them as they arise. Apply the pricipals of Krav Maga that you know. When doing a gun defense do you pull on the gun? No, well why??? Use that to your advantage. When they fall away from you, maybe to the ground, what do you do??? You burst in, follow them, give them the gun- so to say…
The bottom line in my post was that civilians don’t need to learn LE weapon retention. Sorry guys. I am sure it’s not a popular opinion, but it’s mine.September 13, 2006 at 6:13 pm #49607kravmdjeffMember
I was amazed when I had the chance to train on some LE retention stuff. Very simple concepts seemed to make the difference between a person being able to employ their weapon and being stopped from doing so.September 13, 2006 at 7:22 pm #49609ryanMember
Yes, I think it’s best to not further the retention discussion, especially as it relates to specific techniques, tactics, or principles.September 13, 2006 at 7:47 pm #49611
Yeah, for once I am in agreement with Ryan. So much for my vague post… 😕September 13, 2006 at 8:36 pm #49616
I’m still not so sure what all of the secrecy is about. I understand we want to protect police officers, but how likely is it really that some gang member not only studies Krav Maga, but then gets all the way up to level five, learns gun retention, then shows it to his buddies, then they use it against police officers, who are trained to stay at a distance to a suspect, especially if that suspect is armed? Would a police officer try to grab a suspect’s gun, so that that suspect could then do a KM gun retention technique? I don’t know, it just doesn’t seem that likely a scenario. The one about grabbing the gun from the holster maybe, but that’s one that civilians wouldn’t need to learn, so that one could be kept secret.
I’m thinking more about a situation similar to the one KravMDjeff was mentioning, someone grabbing the gun from the side or front and a struggle ensues.
Of course, it’s commom sense to try to stay at a distance, but as an untrained civiian, that may not always be possible. Or, as I have said, what if you used the KM gun defense and the attacker is able to grab the gun before you can step away? Shouldn’t happen but it could.
Well, I guess I’m just of a curious mind…. 😉
GiantkillerSeptember 13, 2006 at 8:54 pm #49617
Up until a few months ago I would have found it unlikely that a gang member would join the military to learn from them. They have and dedicated much of their lives to learning these tactics. It would not suprise me if one day they tried to the same in LE or Krav Maga.
It happens, criminals are evolving just like us… We can never be too careful.
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