Home › Forums › Krav Maga Worldwide Forums › Law Enforcement & Military › Gun Retention
- This topic has 77 replies, 18 voices, and was last updated 8 years ago by jackwalker.
September 15, 2006 at 12:36 pm #49645kravmdjeffMember
I think PMs are turned off on the board, I’ll e-mail you.September 15, 2006 at 11:19 pm #49648
God almighty, I somehow did it again, I touched off an angry, heated debate.
For the record, I was in no way offended by what Tomoe said. She didn’t want to give too many details and that’s okay, that’s her position, that’s not offensive. Ryan calling me ignorant, happens every so often, it hardly registers anymore.
That leaves me to wonder what KravMD’s problem is, but well… MD, how do you know when I am \”out of my area\”? Or when I’m speaking \”beyond my area of expertise\”? I’ve done KM for nine years, how long have you done it? I’m ignorant, because I have the audacity to disagree with Ryan sometimes? What kind of a twisted logic is that? If you think I am wrong about something, why not simply make some good points, so that I can change my mind? But maybe you don’t have any good points to make, so all that’s left to say is that I must be stupid, because I don’t agree with you. That type of argument seems to work well for kindergarten, not sure it’s as applicable on a forum for adults, but well…
To recap, all I was saying was, I do believe gun retention techniques can have important applications for civilians. I’m small. My attacker could be twice my size. My punch may stun him, but not enough to finish the technique cleanly. We can’t assume we are always going to be perfect in our technique. Could be that a struggle happens, I may briefly end up with the gun, the attacker grabs it again, now I’m going strength against strength against a guy twice my size and I’m probably going to lose. Gun retention could potentially safe my life here.
We sometimes work on gun techniques with resistance in class and end up in similar situations and often enough I lose the battle (and would have gotten killed in a real situation). So I believe it could be important. Would I feel safer knowing these techniques? Yes, absolutely.
So, if an argument is being made that I shouldn’t know them, because it could somehow lead to gang members finding out and then using it against police, then I think it’s all right for me to ask some questions. If it really would be a great potential problem, then yes, I guess it would make sense to be more secretive, on the other hand, if criminals really want to, they may still find out (join the KM instructor’s course, or even the police). Then they’d know and well-intentioned civilians don’t and under some circumstances, it may cost them their lives.
Yes, I’m not a cop, that’s why I thought it would be a good opportunity to ask Tomoe some questions about it, as I thought she may have some further information.
As for my \”history on the forum\”, I just like to speak my mind about important issues. I’ve always been open to change my opinion about anything, as long as somebody could convince me that I’m wrong, however no one is even trying, instead I am usually barraged with angry outbursts and insults that fail to prove anything.
GiantkillerSeptember 16, 2006 at 4:45 am #49654
MMMMM… \”snap\” and \”around the world\” girlfriend! 😉
GK, email me if you like… it’s on my profile.September 17, 2006 at 3:55 am #49664
Okay, will do. 8)
GiantkillerSeptember 19, 2006 at 5:59 pm #49701
Ignorance: lack of knowledge, education, or awareness.
If this weren’t the case, would we be having this discussion? Despite numerous attempts from various people, she continued to poke and prod, though, I don’t expect anything else, really.
Tomoe, you can toe the mighter-than-thou line if you like, but the truth is, I called it like it is (and I did go on to explain why I didn’t find it appropriate for the forum.) The fact that you continued your \”civil debate\” further proves that my initial reply was accurate. There was no angry outburst on my part, you two CHOSE to be offended.
GK, you spew the \”speak my mind\” mantra often, but do you not find it a bit curious that you are one of the VERY few people who has been \”erased\” from the forum? Do you not wonder why a student of nine years would be told to not come back? There are hundreds of people on here, everyday, asking questions and giving their opinions. Why do you get singled out? It must be a conspiracy…September 19, 2006 at 8:41 pm #49706
It was my goal to keep the higher road, but now I just feel the need to \”speak my mind\”. In the words of a new found and wise friend, ìIt is better to be an occasional dissenter than an eternal butt kisserî. Guess it’s a chick thing.
Ryan, I never said I was offended, just wondered why instead of transferring knowledge, you decided to chastise her. I guess I will try your approach and since you are interested in ìThe truth and calling it like it isî, I will oblige.
\”Ignorance: lack of knowledge, education, or awareness. \” Ryan
I guess that’s you… I spent 4 hours dealing with a suicidal subject that was barricaded in a house. Wondering when he was going to open fire with his rifle in my direction. When was the last time you did that? Hmmm.. Never, guess you are ignorant then by your own standards.
I donít know GKíS history, who cares anyway? I thought that the idea of the forum was to discuss ideas? If she does not understand your point then what is the big deal? Why do you find her so annoying that you want her banned? Censorship is a very dangerous thing, one day your in, the next your out. Why are the ìpoliticalî threads not deleted? Surely they are far less appropriate the GKíS posts.
Ryan, you have no credibility with me. Ever since you and Andre were caught lying about him working for you, your word means nothing. If it was put on paper, it would mean less. If you forgot, here is the thread where you guys were caught:
Ryan, you act as if you are an expert at everything and above it all. All of your \”word of the day calendar\” remarks canít hide what you are. Look at your credentials. Here we can see another lie. Let’s take a close look shall we…
It says on your site you are a \”certified\” Bas Rutten instructor. When did you take your test? I can answer that… you haven’t. Who runs your program Ryan? That’s right, Jeff does. As for Jeff Jimmo… \”Certified\” Bas Rutten instructor? Thatís not what this link says:
Using Bas’ curriculum to augment yours without being certified to do so? Youíre a ìcertifiedî Law Enforcement trainer so you tell me, is that ethical?
You badger and needle other people, on this forum and others, or ìpoke and prodî if you will. You try to discredit others and treat them like their opinion does not matter, because it simply differs from your own. You have to have the last word in every thread with a debate. Well, you shouldíve let this one go.
I must give you credit where credit is due however. I do like the kid safe agent and the steal proof stuff, very cute. Is that for your \”little dragon\” program? If that offends you, or any of my post for that matter; then itís because ìYou CHOSE to be offendedî. 🙄September 19, 2006 at 9:40 pm #49708andreMember
I wonder how much breeding it takes to get a horse that high. Let alone the sheer effort it takes to get on and off such an animal.
Anyway, you caught us Tomoe, good work. I’m certainly a ignorant hack, that’s a compulsive liar. In fact, I don’t really work for Ryan, cause we are the same person a l· \”Fight Club\”.
This thread has become obsolete.September 19, 2006 at 9:46 pm #49710
Yeah, oh yeah Tomoe!! He,he, maybe we should found a \”girls with attitude\” club. 😆 Nice quote by the way… 😉 I hope that at that rate you’re not going to be the next to go, though… 🙁
Why am I getting deleted from the forum? Hmmm, honestly I think I’m being too smart. Yes, I know, you’re going to say that sounds very arrogant, probably does, but what’s happening is that I’m employing way too much critical thinking. I dare to question things, even (and sometimes especially) my leaders.
In a democracy that should be all right. A democracy invites critical debate. Here, it seems to be discouraged. That’s too bad, because the forum could be so much more than just self-congratulating threads and porn ads.
About this weapon retention thing, I had some specific questions, that so far no one has answered. If people are yelling and screaming at me for asking, I’m not so much offended on a personal level, after all, what do I care if someone I have never met calls me \”ignorant\”? What bothers me, on an intellectual level, is that it seems to be impossible to talk about anything that could even be remotely construed as \”controversial\”. I wasn’t disclosing the techniques, I was just questioning and asking about the decision not to make these techniques accessible to civilians who might need them. Again, I was asking specific questions and nobody answered them. If I’m really so \”ignorant\”, then why does it seem to be so hard for people to come up with plausible arguments to prove me wrong?
But back to discussing \”mutant dicks\” and real estate ads….
GiantkillerSeptember 20, 2006 at 12:01 am #49713
Oooh, busted. You go, girl. 🙄
Okay, I shouldn’t dignify any of this with a response, but I’ll hit the \”high\” notes:
It’s Merriam-Webster’s standards, not mine. I’m pretty ignorant when it comes to quantum physics, and I have no problem admitting it. I don’t see what the big deal is.
You \”read\” chastising–that’s your call, I suppose.
Man, I don’t have credibility with Tomoe. How will I go on? Andre is not employed by me. Everyone here knows he is an instructor at my school. I don’t think that was a \”grassy knoll\” moment. His thoughts are his. I see him maybe once a week.
Check this link: http://www.basrutten.tv/newsdesk_info.php?newsPath=5&newsdesk_id=9.
Yes, Jeff is the primary MMA instructor at our school. He’s one of the best in the country. Man, you must be a detective or something.
Lil’ Dragons classes–yes, that’s right, we teach life skills to young kids. We try to make a difference in the lives of kids, so maybe they never grow up to barricade themselves inside a house, threatening suicide. It may not be SWAT, but I make no excuses or apologies for it.
Offended, hardly. I find your little club entertaining, and I’m glad you think so highly of yourself. I wish you all of the best.September 20, 2006 at 12:19 am #49714
Actually a high horse is not needed for you guys… a Shetland pony will do just fine I think. 😉
Hmm.. 2004 and a candidate for Bas… 2006 and still not certified… YOU go girl! 😉
I actually am a detective, but it didn’t take a degree in criminal justice to figure you guys out. Those are what we in the profession field call \”real\” credentials. 8)September 20, 2006 at 12:24 am #49715
You’re funny. You’d think a detective would gather a bit more info and actually have an idea of what they are talking about before blabbing on a forum. I guess it’s like any other profession though, there’s good detectives, and then there’s…
Anyway, I’m certain this isn’t productive, and I have Lil’ Dragons classes to teach.September 20, 2006 at 12:34 am #49716andreMember
Shetland Pony, Ooohh snap, I been sassed, good one.September 20, 2006 at 5:14 am #49726
Police work is done where the rubber meets the road, so I made sure I had the facts correct. I did my research and it’s obvious. There in black and white or I should say ìred and whiteî.
You are not a certified instructor and neither is Jeff. That’s a fact, or a clue depending on how you want to look at it. In police work creditability is of the utmost importance. You get caught in a lie on the stand, you are done, kiss your career goodbye. Of course, that’s only how cops feel. It may be different in your circles.
You can make all the jokes back at me you want in order to deflect the attention off of you both. I am glad you find humor in questions regarding one’s ethics, morals, and character. I deal with people like you two every day. They get caught in a lie and they \”yuck\” it up in an effort to minimize what they have done.
You keep saying he doesn’t work for you but that he teaches for you. Just how fine can you split a frogís hair? Well Merriam-Websterís definition of employed is \”to use or engage the services of\”. But it just could be that I am looking for that second shooterÖ
Hey, GK letís get together and work on our ìsecret handshakeî since we seem to have a club now. Maybe we can get \”members only\” jackets! I wonder if that was meant to be a gender specific attack. When they debate amongst themselves do they accuse each other of having little clubs too? HmmmÖSeptember 20, 2006 at 12:28 pm #49734kravmdjeffMember
editSeptember 20, 2006 at 1:11 pm #49736
It seems to me you’re the one with the propensity for personal attacks and lame attempts at humor. Regardless, this is a complete waste of time.
If anyone is interested, I can provide e-mails from Bas and Shannon that detail the real story: e-mails where he thanks me for the idea of him creating a system, grants us East Coast Regional Headquarters status, and grants us certification before the current process of certification was even in place.
Oh, and Merriam-Webster further defines employ as \”to provide with a job that pays wages or a salary\”. You chose to leave that part out, which seems to be how you do things, only choosing to state the things that help your \”case\”.
I suppose this is what you mean by \”transferring knowledge\”, huh, Tomoe (I mean, Kirsten): http://www.basrutten.tv/forum/viewtopic.php?t=902&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20. Man, if I’d only read that first, I’d have known how to handle things diplomatically (oh, and learned to post under an alias, therefore \”protecting\” my \”credibility\”.)
I won’t respond to this further, no matter how inflammatory, libelous, or factually incorrect Tomoe continues to be, since she obviously has some ax to grind (though my guess is she’s acting as a proxy for someone else, but that’s a whole other story), and life’s just too short. I’m easy to reach if anyone has any valid questions or concerns.
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