Hammerfist to the neck

[reaper1]

I was thinking today, how much force should you use with a hamerfist to the back of the neck?
I’m concerned if I used to much force I could injure someones vertebrae causing serious damage. So how to you work out how much force should be applied?

Cheers

[chocolate-soldier]

Re: Hammerfist to the neck

quote Reaper1:

I was thinking today, how much force should you use with a hammerfist to the back of the neck?
I’m concerned if I used to much force I could injure someones vertebrae causing serious damage. So how to you work out how much force should be applied?

Cheers

Worry about this more than vertebrae:

Medulla: The medulla (also known as the medulla oblongata) is located at the
base of the brain stem and controls many of the mechanisms necessary for life, such as heartbeat, blood pressure and breathing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medulla_oblongata

The medulla extends downward from the skull & connects to the spinal cord.

A powerful blow to the back of the neck via a hammerfist or elbow strike could render the person unconscious with breathing problems, or worse..

Even a mild blow can leave someone suffering from dizziness & discomfort for weeks.

So in training one needs to use caution practicing any strikes in that area & outside the dojo all the rules concerning a proportional response to a threat apply.

[hm2pac]

Re: Hammerfist to the neck

The medulla oblongata is encased within the skull. A small margin of it’s inferior tip exits the skull, ending at the level of C-1, (Atlas). From that level, the spinal cord itself begins.

The nerves arising from C-2,3,4, (Upper Neck), merge to become the Phrenic nerve, which controls the diaphragm. Interrupting this pathway will stop the diaphragm from moving and subsequently the human/mammal cannot breathe.

While the medulla does control all of these functions, it cannot be directly struck by a blow to the back of the neck.

The following is from the WIKIPEDIA LINK supplied by Chocolate Soldier:

The medulla oblongata controls autonomic functions, and relays nerve signals between the brain and spinal cord. It is also responsible for controlling several major points and autonomic functions of the body:

• respiration (via dorsal respiratory group and ventral respiratory group)
• blood pressure
• swallowing
• vomiting
• defecation
• urination
• reflexes

FYI,Just my 2 cents.

[kirsten]

Re: Hammerfist to the neck

quote Reaper1:

I was thinking today, how much force should you use with a hamerfist to the back of the neck?
I’m concerned if I used to much force I could injure someones vertebrae causing serious damage. So how to you work out how much force should be applied?

Cheers

You use the necessary amount of force to defend yourself, stop subsequent attacks, and thereby giving your self the opportunity to escape to safety.

[don]

Re: Hammerfist to the neck

quote Reaper1:

I was thinking today, how much force should you use with a hamerfist to the back of the neck?
I’m concerned if I used to much force I could injure someones vertebrae causing serious damage. So how to you work out how much force should be applied?

Cheers

I’m not familiar with how things are/work in Australia. I would recommend that you talk to your local law enforcement use of force expert or, possibly better yet, the people who are in charge of prosecuting crimes such as assault, battery, mutual combat, etc (e.g. the local district attorney’s office here in the states).

In most places around the US, you can use a reasonable amount of force to protect yourself or others. Reasonableness will depend on a BUNCH of different factors and the “totality of the circumstances”.

A rhetorical question – what kind of situation(s) might be occurring where you would “have to” use your self-defense training And where the opportunity or opening presents itself to impact (e.g. via a hammerfist) the back of a bad guy’s neck?

In LE force training, I/we often stress that Hesitation to use force and/or using Too Little force could possibly lead to disastrous results (you or others being seriously hurt or killed).

Speaking for me personally, on duty or off duty, I am 100% sure that if I ever have to hit someone in the back of the neck (or anywhere else), it’s going to be as hard as I can and as many times as I can – until that bad guy ceases to present any kind of threat…

[jburtonpdx]

Re: Hammerfist to the neck

quote Reaper1:

I was thinking today, how much force should you use with a hamerfist to the back of the neck?
I’m concerned if I used to much force I could injure someones vertebrae causing serious damage. So how to you work out how much force should be applied?

Cheers

How hard is to hard when you or your family is in danger of serious harm? If I have to hit, its going to be as hard as I can as fast as I can because my family or myself is in danger and this is the way to get out of it.

Im not qualified to comment on legal aspects, you will find that most on the internet will supply some sort of disclaimer anytime you approach a “legal question”. Those issues are between you, your defense, and your legal/justice system.

I still would rather be alive or have my family alive to deal with the legal aspects, thats better then the alternative…

[aviatordave]

Re: Hammerfist to the neck

quote Reaper1:

I was thinking today, how much force should you use with a hamerfist to the back of the neck?
I’m concerned if I used to much force I could injure someones vertebrae causing serious damage. So how to you work out how much force should be applied?

Cheers

I’m more concerned that I might not use enough and they will reach up and slap ME in the ‘nads and then knee ME in the face.

So how much force should be applied? I’d say as much as you can.

Any of the combatives has the possibility of causing serious damage, whether it be from the impact from the strike, or secondary damage from them falling and hitting other objects, like the pavement. That’s how you win a fight – you make the attacker either unable or unwilling to continue.

[paul]

Re: Hammerfist to the neck

does the same rules apply as too carrying a firearm. it shouldnt matter, if it is the same situation, and the same result for the instigator.

[seeq-qc]

Re: Hammerfist to the neck

I can’t speak from first hand experience, but from conversations i have had with people how have been in situations like that it appears to me that all the planning and what i call “metering of aggression” goes right out the window when you’re in a mortal combat situation. It would be nigh on impossible to remember that stuff and think to yourself, “oh wait, hmmm, don’t want to hit this dude’s medulla with that much force, could cause this bastard some serious injury.” Not going to happen. Your training is going to kick in and the die will be cast.

I have the same basic concerns you do, so what I do is train to target body parts that can be struck with max force, effecting opponent stoppage but with a somewhat lower chance of death or permanent injury. Obviously nothing is certain – as soon as two guys square up there is always the chance that someone could walk away permanently injured and someone just might not walk away at all. nature of combat. but I would advise against trying to meter your force – just don’t think it will transition into a real world life and death situation.

[aviatordave]

Re: Hammerfist to the neck

quote seeq_QC:

I can’t speak from first hand experience, but from conversations i have had with people how have been in situations like that it appears to me that all the planning and what i call “metering of aggression” goes right out the window when you’re in a mortal combat situation. It would be nigh on impossible to remember that stuff and think to yourself, “oh wait, hmmm, don’t want to hit this dude’s medulla with that much force, could cause this bastard some serious injury.” Not going to happen. Your training is going to kick in and the die will be cast.

I have the same basic concerns you do, so what I do is train to target body parts that can be struck with max force, effecting opponent stoppage but with a somewhat lower chance of death or permanent injury. Obviously nothing is certain – as soon as two guys square up there is always the chance that someone could walk away permanently injured and someone just might not walk away at all. nature of combat. but I would advise against trying to meter your force – just don’t think it will transition into a real world life and death situation.

I agree. If you’re worried about metering your force, it would be better to do it with the combatives you use and not how hard you apply them. A drunk in a bar most likely isn’t intending to kill you, he’s just pissed you were hitting on his girlfriend while he was getting drinks. Same goes for some moron that gets mad thinking you took his parking place. So don’t slam the back of their head to the pavement or stomp the back of their neck.

A guy or two that try to rob you at gun or knifepoint at an ATM machine is a different matter. Especially if there are more than one.

The first two people may even say something like “I’m gonna’ kick your ass”, the last scenario they may something like “Give me your money or I’ll kill you.” but in many cases, it’s “your money AND I’ll kill you.”

Whatever you decide to apply, do it with full force.

[clfmak]

Re: Hammerfist to the neck

I have some reservations in advocating a maximum force suggestion in any confrontation, however I agree in the instance of the hammerfist to the neck. Unless you plan on causing serious damage, the hammerfist to the neck isn’t a great option. If you do have reason to do the hammerfist, do it hard.

[Author]

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