Home Forums Krav Maga Worldwide Forums KM Techniques & Krav Maga Books In Vehicle Gun defense from behind with no space

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  • #30136
    cjs-dad
    Keymaster
    quote \”Krav_4_Life\:

    -Gun defense from behind with no space. (e.x: Your in the front seat of a car and the gunman is pointing the gun at you between the space of the seat and the headrest)

    Technique assumes gun is pointed at your head and not at the back of your seat (as to shoot you through the seat.) For purposes of the discussion lets assume the vehicle is NOT moving

    #55678
    kmsf
    Member

    What does a site admin. do? How did you get the title within three months of being here? Inq. Mnds wnt to knw.

    #55679
    giant-killer
    Member

    Seems like John is out of town or something (or at least not on the forum) and CJ’s Dad took over for a bit. At least that’s what I heard. Hope John will be back soon, though, as it seems to be more fun with him here (no offense CJ’s Dad 🙂 ).

    Anyway, I feel overlooked. Imagine I would have been made site administrator. Chaos and anarchy, it would have been great!! 😈 😆

    As for the technique question, good idea to move some things I believe, that way they’ll be all in one place. I guess there were already some answers to this question, maybe paste ’em in?

    If the gun is held higher up, where it could be grabbed more easily, I guess hostage gun defense could work (we’ve actually tried this before). It’s harder, though, because you can’t scoot your hips back or lean your upper body forward (especially if you are wearing a seat belt).

    If the gun is further down, against the back, it may also be possible to pull it out from behind and turn it so it faces the window, then try to disarm, but it may be hard.

    Slamming on the brakes, so the attacker will fall forward is also a possibility, but there will be no control over the weapon.

    _________________
    Giantkiller

    #55685
    cjs-dad
    Keymaster

    Re:

    quote \”KMSF\:

    What does a site admin. do? How did you get the title within three months of being here? Inq. Mnds wnt to knw.

    Its not a big deal I have no authority nor would I assume any. He simply asked if I would help with some administration while he was gone such as authorizing new member accounts and making sure it wasnít spam. I admin/mod a bunch of boards for work and so Iím familiar with how the forums software runs.

    If the forums break I can fix them thatís it, I wouldnít so much as make a sticky post without John saying it was ok. Site admin is a user group not a position with entitlement, I’m still just a regular member.

    Sorry if there was any confusion

    #55686
    kmsf
    Member

    Good to know someone can fix it if it broke. Some people wouldn’t know what to do with themselves if it went down too long. 8)

    #55687
    cjs-dad
    Keymaster

    Let me see if I can attempt an answer GK etc please feel free to correct my noobieness.

    Scenario set up:

    You get into the front seat of your car and from the back seat an attacker places a gun to the back of your head. The car is not moving you just sat down your door is closed, your seat belt is on.

    Lets first address the immediate danger:

    Make slight body/head movement to your left simultainiously your right hand comes up to grab the muzzle and bring it offline forward past your ear. Your left hand comes up open fingers wide palm slaps the hammer section of gun creating a wall so its not dragged backward. (attackers natural reaction is to pull the gun back to him making the ìwallî with your left hand prevents this) right hand still on muzzle you brace yourself with your feet and back against seat and snap the grip by moving the muzzle sharply to the right while still pushing on the hammer area with your left. Clear the fingr by pushing forward with the gun (that should now be pointed at the passenger seat)

    You could at this point do a #2 elbow with your right hand while reaching down with your left to unsnap your seatbelt.

    Left hand open the car door and exit the vehicle.

    Tap / rack / online / check 6

    How’d I do for only three months of being here (I kid KMSF I kid)

    #55690

    Re: In Vehicle Gun defense from behind with no space

    quote \”CJs Dad\:

    quote \”Krav_4_Life\:

    -Gun defense from behind with no space. (e.x: Your in the front seat of a car and the gunman is pointing the gun at you between the space of the seat and the headrest)

    Technique assumes gun is pointed at your head and not at the back of your seat (as to shoot you through the seat.) For purposes of the discussion lets assume the vehicle is NOT moving

    First, if I canít diffuse the situation verbally, I would continue talking to the guy, asking him questions to make him think. (Obviously he wants to keep me alive for as long as he can, otherwise, he would have fired already). While asking him questions and letting him answer, I would lean my head forward out of the gunís range (assuming the gun is between the two bars that hold up the headrest) while releasing the back of the seat to confuse/surprise him, and since his gun is between the seat and the headrest, it might get pinned for a short while and he wouldnít be able to point at me since his gun would still be between the seat and headrest (which would now be pointing diagonally upwards), as which point I do whatever I need to do to in order to escape.

    Of course, this wouldnít work if you have one of those electric seats.

    #55706
    giant-killer
    Member

    I have an electric seat, so I’m screwed! 🙁

    Hmmm, gun between headrest, interesting. Would make it much harder to grab, that’s for sure.

    CJ’sDad, In think you are basically describing the gun hostage defense, modified for carjacking? That’s the one we usually train to do in that scenario. So NOT the regular gun to the side of the head, where you redirect with your left hand, then cup with your right.

    Now, I wonder, if the attacker is not exactly behind your seat, but a bit off to the side, more behind the passenger seat, but pointing the gun at your head from there, maybe regular gun to the side technique with cupping would work better?

    Gun hostage defense, for those who don’t know: You turn the palm of your right hand toward the gun, then grab it from the front (not from behind as in regular gun to the head). You pull the muzzle forward and turn it around, to the side, then cover with your left. If you are standing (as you would be when doing the regular defense), you can use your hips to push back as your arms are extending forward, pushing the gun out of his grip. As CJ’sDad said, in this situation, you shouldn’t turn the gun all the way to the side, in case there is a passenger in the vehicle.

    It’s hard to do this defense in the car, as you don’t have your hips to push into him. If he’s got long arms, you may not be able to get the gun, but you could continue to cover and just bang his arm into the dashboard or windshield, anything to make him let go, even bite his hand. CJ’sDad, have you tried this yet? If not, grab Jarret, make sure to take HIS car (some possibility of broken windshields) and give it a spin. Feels pretty crowded in a car, probably worse for a big guy.

    Now, another thing I can’t help but wonder about in this scenario is how this guy got into your back seat in the first place, then waits there until you get in, put your seat belt on and you don’t see him ’til he moves. Awareness is always important in self-defense sceanrios and if you could only a) make sure your car is locked when you leave, b) pay some attention to your surroundings once you return and before you get in, you should be able to see such an assailant laying in wait and maybe it’ll give you a chance to get away earlier.

    _________________
    Giantkiller

    #55771
    kravjeff
    Member

    The biggest problem with the responses so far IMHO are; one redirects the line of fire to the passenger seat. If you’re not alone, this is obviously a bad idea … If you were alone, what’s wrong with haulin’ a$$ out of the car? 😀

    Overall though – Not bad for three months 😉

    How ’bout this – Check your back seat EVERY TIME you get in your car! 😉

    #55774
    cjs-dad
    Keymaster

    Re:

    quote \”kravjeff\:

    The biggest problem with the responses so far IMHO are; one redirects the line of fire to the passenger seat. If you’re not alone, this is obviously a bad idea … If you were alone, what’s wrong with haulin’ a$$ out of the car? 😀

    Overall though – Not bad for three months 😉

    1) Did this one sitting down with someone in a chair directly behind me and that issue was brought up. When you pull the gun forward and then snap the muzzle you actually don’t clear the muzzle to the passenger seat centerline. We checked 🙂 btw I did this one with Jarret Waldman. Not a lot further up the food chain I could go LOL. (Waldman/Bluestein both did wingate and are the senior ranks at SO) Not counting Darren of course.

    2) Way to jump in on the 3 month joke Jeff LOL, I guess I’m a quick study (or maybe its all the pretty pieces of paper with the fancy seals I got? j/k)

    3) My wifes range rover had smoked windows I canít see into the back seat area.

    4) My Porsche windows are totally fix-it-tickett black

    hmm guess we need new cars?

    #55776
    kravjeff
    Member

    You have a backseat in the Porsche? Maybe the right technique is to drive a 2-seater 😕

    Cars sound like they’re worth keeping – maybe just new windows 😉

    Good to hear from you Sean

    #55806
    giant-killer
    Member

    Even if the windows are tinted, why couldn’t you just look into the back seat as soon as you open the front door? Usually, cars have interior lights. That should brighten up the area well enough for you to see if someone is hiding there. If you see someone, you can then immediately turn and run. If your windows are tinted, it makes it harder for the perpetrator to see through them and thus more difficult to accurately shoot at you as you are running away (also he would have to shoot through the windshield, making it crack after the first shot, even harder to see). Unless he is an incredibly great, fast or simply lucky shooter, it should give you a good amount of time to try and get away.

    Also, taking preventative measures, such as locking your car and rolling up the windows could help avoid such a situation. Watching for signs of a break in when returning to the car. Parking in well lit areas. Things like that. The modification of the gun/hostage technique works well in a car, but better not to be in the situation in the first place if it can be avoided.

    _________________
    Giantkiller

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