Home › Forums › Krav Maga Worldwide Forums › General KM Related Topics › kata like training in Krav???
- This topic has 12 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 17 years, 6 months ago by anonymous.
September 8, 2005 at 3:20 pm #28866thorMember
I took the summer off from working out to let my old body heal. It was necesary after 3.5 years of training I guess.
When I came back my instructor had been to a seminar. All of a sudden we are taught sequences by number. One a straight jab to the pad, two a one-two combination.
So far we’re up to 12 or so. It’s really fancy (and goes totally against my instinct of one block followed by a continuous attack) and irritating as hell. Who wants to do training where we concentrate on numbers and executing the response that belongs to that number? I know I don’t. And it’s funny to see the class, there’s a lot giggling, hesitation and non-decisive punches. There’s pads held at the wrong spot. There’s fists flying through the air at targets that aren’t there. It’s crazy.
Anyway, this school has not offered testing to get out of level two for three years. Now this. Are these guys making up their own stuff here? Is this what they teach you guys? When did Krav become responding to the numbers instead of an application of the right moves at the right time?
Is it time to move on??September 8, 2005 at 3:39 pm #39890
They started doing this at my school recently as well. I happen to like it. Kata? What kind of kata has you hitting pads? This is the way I see it. Training by numbers adds this to your training
1) Smart approach. By having your partner call numbers equivelent to numbers it forces you to Watch/Listen/and THINK about what you need to do in response. This develops a faster reaction (By teaching your body to respond to vocal & visual cues), teaches you to think in a fight when, where, and what to hit with in a fight. Block and go nutz is ok…but it leaves you in a position of not having to think which leaves you vulnerable.
2) Partners advantage. Not only does it teach you to think it forces your padholder to think as well. It forces him to think where his hands need to be for every number which will teaches him the areas where he needs to be to block those punches.
3) This is an old boxing drill. You will run into it in many boxing (and even kickboxing) schools.
4) Not the same old same old. Before this drill came along class was becoming a grueling session of the same old drills over and over and over. This adds change/spontanaety and even greater cardio workout than before.
5) Did I mention hand eye coordination?
Personally if you go to class to just go nutz and hit things..then you arent learning anything. My ability at sparring has drastically increased because of these \”kata\” like drills your speaking of.September 8, 2005 at 4:43 pm #39898jlMember
By the Numbers
We have a similar situation in our class. We don’t use numbers per se, we use a set of moves the instructor sets out (kicks, strikes. knees, etc.) you have multiple partners holding bags. We normally use three or four partners. One will call your name and you go quickly to that person and use the proper strike for that station. You never know which one will call you. Then another will call and then the next, but never in a particular order. They are not stationary, they move around. Then you switch and the next person goes into THE BOX. The point is to put pressure on the student to recognize different situations that call for immediate decisive and proper response. It makes you think and respond faster, at least it did for most of us. We really like the workout and challenge each other, because after all after your turn, your partners are next in THE BOX. It’s a killer cardio workout.September 8, 2005 at 4:49 pm #39899leftie79Member
This reminds me of the Bas workouts. My school does not have the actual tapes/CDs but my instructor makes his own workout. A #1 is jab right knee, #2 is jab, cross left knee etc. etc. This helps for listening as well as having to think about what number goes with what move.September 8, 2005 at 4:56 pm #39901emilMember
Thor, hitting pads or focus mitts to predetermined numbers is a widely used tool in many systems, including Krav, boxing,MT. It helps to develop punch mechanics, footwork, defenses, endurance and other attributes. Each combination usually focuses on difference aspects of hitting, some on closing distance, others on close in attacks, and some on movement. With time and lots of practice your ability to perform combatives will improve as well as your endurance. While it’s not meant to replace sparring against a resisting opponent, it’s definitely a valuable learning tool. Advanced versions include \”recognizing\” opportunities to strike, instead of pre-determined sequences, defending attacks by the mitts and partner.September 8, 2005 at 5:00 pm #39902ryanMember
Let’s simplify this even more. As a mitt holder, it is much easier to say 4, than to say jab/cross/hook/uppercut. As a puncher, I get a better workout, since I’m not having to listen to a long list of punches. That said, I’m not a big fan of long counts (8, 10, 12+). I am hard-pressed to find the relevance for such training, though I know it’s done in many systems/styles.September 8, 2005 at 7:31 pm #39906thorMember
points well taken…
All points well taken.
The problems is simple though, who the heck can remember 16 combinations? And throw them correctly each time when someone screams a number? Am I just too stupid for Krav Maga?
For instance, 11 (or whatever number, they lost me at 4) is swipe to the body, followed by a swipe to the head. You are supposed to block with the arm, duck the second one and then punch twice.
When a number is called the pad holders can’t remember the right sequence and if by change they do, the ‘defender’ is getting confused because for three years he has been practising to block the first swipe and then attack. (Who ducks out of the way of a punch anyway?)
Four counts ok, five maybe. I am too stupid for six. I came for a workout. I came to fight. Not a study session in which to remember 16 action/reaction drills called by the number!
PS: The ‘box drill’ in which you switch from attacker to attacker? I love that one. I also love the one where you run from one side to the other and do certain drills at each side. And how about you stand in the middle of the gym with your eyes closed only to be attacked different ways by the other half of the group? I love it! Sweat is your friend!
PPS: What’s up with no testing out of level 2 for thee years?? 200 classes not enough? Is there no requirements for instructors to keep training themselves? It’s not like I don’t know what I am doing. In a recent class given by law enforcement I was ‘accused’ of being a special forces guy because of my fighting style. And I am just a simple fighter pilot!September 9, 2005 at 1:56 am #39916johnwhitmanMember
There’s nothing about Krav Maga in doing a 16 punch combination. We do them sometimes, too, just to be challenging and to work on conditioning.
As far as testing…that sounds like an awfully long time to wait. Complain, tell them to talk to us if you like.September 9, 2005 at 11:58 am #39933
I understand your point about 16 different combinations Thor. It is frustrating. But trust me, when you do them enough in class and you and your partner get them down and the energy is flowing, thats when you get a real good workout. It gets even better when your partner is told to call numbers at random. Give it some time and do your best at the drill and trying to learn all the combo’s at once. My instructor didnt drop all 16 on us at once he built us up slowly to where we are now. You will see the benefit over time trust me.September 9, 2005 at 12:58 pm #39935g-vMember
Are you guys talking about your partner calling out numbers and you have to punch the pad that number of times? We do that in class, and I find it boring as hell.September 9, 2005 at 3:49 pm #39937
No partner calls number which equates to a combination of defenses, punches, knee strikes, kicks, example
my #4 is weave, left hook, right uppercut, left hook, right elbow, and finally the oh sh*t cover-up block. So when my partner calls #4 that is what I do.
My #2 is just a jab-cross
My #3 is a jab-cross-hook-upercut
So if my partner calls 2,4,3 that is the combo’s I have to execute in that order. you learn each # one by one until your able to start strining them together….then as you get more confident and faster your partner starts calling em in different orders….then as you get more confident your partner may start adding in random attacks that you must defend and counter attack from. Its a very demanding, physically and mentally, workout that is close to sparring (with the right partner) but with a little control.September 9, 2005 at 5:01 pm #39941g-vMember
Oh, ok. We don’t really do that in as far as calling out numbers. But, we do string different punches and kicks together.September 9, 2005 at 9:20 pm #39949anonymousMember
Looks like the numbers mean something different everywhere… When we do it we usually just go up to \”4\”, doing the \”Bas combination\” (up to left right hook straight, sometimes followed by round kicks, sometimes without). It’s okay to do it sometimes, but if you end up doing it all the time, in every class, it does get boring and you are not really learning anything new. 16 combinations are a little long. Often when we do that, the students are spending all their time trying to figure out how to hold the pads and so end up doing little punching. I actually like doing combinations against your partner’s body sometimes, not hitting hard of course, but he gets to absorb and you get to hit a real target. One bad thing about mitts is, I get used to punching something IN FRONT of my attacker’s face, so sometimes in sparring my punches feel like they are a little short.
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