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Is there a mandatory minimum time limit between level tests. How do you feel about this. I believe that you either know the info or you don’t.
Kinda pissed.
Re: Non IKMF students
what I do is loosely based on what my instructor has always done and it used to match up to what KMW used to do. White to yellow(min 6-7months),Yellow to Orange(min 6-7 months since last belt) After that it is a min of a year in between belts. This is predicated on the 2-3 training sessions a week model. Though things are a little different because at my school we only test twice a year(spring/fall) so sometimes people might test a little early and sometimes a little late. I tested a guy for yellow belt who had only been training with me for 3 months. But he had trained at the KMW school in LA for a year prior to that but never tested so he was already a yellow belt…I just recognized it.I am a little influenced by BJJ culture so there have been times I have surprised someone with a promotion without a test.But they are never not qualified for that rank.
Re: Non IKMF students
Love the BJJ culture. Instrcutors know when you are ready, it’s eveident in class. I applaud you for doing so. Should be done by more. In fact, it should be done all the time in every art.
Re: Non IKMF students
I’m a bit upset with my school right now. I am at a level where a new more advanced class is needed(in IKMF it is Graduate level which is green through brown belt.) The school seems to be dragging it’s feet so all that is available is repetitive Practitioner level classes with a smattering of G level techniques thrown in.
I love the people who run my school but they are losing my business because I don’t want to keep paying for something I’ve frankly done to death. I’m not saying that I couldn’t improve on my P level techniques but without a G level class I’m just losing interest.
Only game in town so I might be at the end of the road for Krav Maga. I guess I will still go to sparring.
Rant over. Really had nothing to do with testing, I guess I think minimum time limits are kind of a McDojo tactic.
Re: Non IKMF students
I dont think min time limits are McDojo. Unless they are too long for no reason. A belt rank to me doesnt just mean you memorized all the techniques at that level. It also means you can perform those techniques with a certain amount of proficency. I can teach someone all the techniques of the sport of boxing in one night. That doesnt mean they can compete in the golden gloves the next day.Attributes need to be developed. The original KM curriculum was designed to not just teach you techniques at those levels but to also teach you strtegies and tactics appropriate for your skill level. For example..we have a knife defense in yellow belt and another one in blue belt for the same style of attack. Why not teach the blue belt technique at yellow? Because the blue tech is more reliant on a students speed,timing and reflexes that he doesnt have at yellow belt level. His chance of success in using this technique exists because by the time you are learning blue belt material we assume you have been in the system for a certain amount of time and those reflexes have been honed. Some of the advanced defenses point you in more high risk positions/danger while the yellow/orange defenses always put you in a better position even if you are late or mess up.
So min time in is important in my opinion as long as it is not abused in order to extort more money from a student or to hold it over a students head to manipulate them. The problem with situations like yours is the whole certified instructor system where the growth of a student or school is hindered by the fact that the teachers have stalled in their own training and dont know how to teach the higher levels.Re: Non IKMF students
I dunno. It seems pretty obvious that someone who trains 2 (or more) hours a day is going to learn much faster than someone who trains 2 hours a week. Applying the same 6 months or 1 year requirement on both seems sorta silly. After all, Alan, Rick and Darren got their green belts in a few weeks by busting their butts.
Re: Non IKMF students
[quote=KevinMack;
. The problem with situations like yours is the whole certified instructor system where the growth of a student or school is hindered by the fact that the teachers have stalled in their own training and dont know how to teach the higher levels.[/quote]thumbsup The heart of the problem.
evver notice in a boxing gym or a Muay Thai gym that there are no levels…all you do is train and learn…no artifical barriers to what your ability to learn is…Now I agree with Kevin that there is a progression to learning techniques…hell there is a progression to learning anything but time in is as arbitary as levels are…in the mma school I play at the white belt and the brown are in the same class working the same thing…its not the tech that seperates them its the ability to apply under duress
As Kevin points out and particularly in Krav in the US most instructors are not black belts and are cert’d to a certain level and you can only teach what you know
Re: Non IKMF students
I just spit some of my tea out.
Let me recant a conversation with an “instructor” from another organization.
“whats with the Black Belt, last I checked you were a green belt and didn’t pass the Alliance phase level 1 course”
Him: “My schools not with Alliance anymore and its honorary because I’m a “Black Belt instructor”
“so let me get this straight, you’ve tested to green belt but you WEAR a black when you teach even though you have zero instructor training?”Him: “Im the head instructor at McDojo Krav Maga, GM Douchebag gave it to me”
Recently I’ve heard he’s no longer teaching or training
Re: Non IKMF students
quote catapult:I dunno. It seems pretty obvious that someone who trains 2 (or more) hours a day is going to learn much faster than someone who trains 2 hours a week. Applying the same 6 months or 1 year requirement on both seems sorta silly. After all, Alan, Rick and Darren got their green belts in a few weeks by busting their butts.There you go. You found the point that I was trying to make. I certainly understand Kevin’s point but the levels in the IKMF naturally build off of techniques learned in earlier levels. Our head instructor is G5 which is a high brown belt and is capable of teaching up to that level but only allowed(I believe) to test up to two levels lower.
Black belt in the IKMF is considered Expert Level. Now, this may have changed but, I believe you still have to test E level in Israel in front of the IKMF testing committee. I don’t think there are more than a handful of Experts in the US.
Re: Non IKMF students
quote catapult:I dunno. It seems pretty obvious that someone who trains 2 (or more) hours a day is going to learn much faster than someone who trains 2 hours a week. Applying the same 6 months or 1 year requirement on both seems sorta silly. After all, Alan, Rick and Darren got their green belts in a few weeks by busting their butts.I know at KMW you still need the minimum hours for your level. Level 1 I believe is 40 hours minimum (4 months), Level 2 is 60 (6 months), Level 3 is 80 (9 months), Level 4 is 100[?] (9 months) so on and so forth. They only have the minimum months as a guideline if you train 2-3 classes (hours) a week. If you train more often (4+ classes a week) you’ll reach the hours much faster. I think the time put into training has more importance than how long you’ve been training at your level. When I was at level 1 I was able to train 6-8 classes a week just because there was so many level 1 classes available to attend. I made the minimum hours within 3 months, got my permission to test form signed but I didn’t actually test until I trained 60-ish hours of level 1 and about 6 months in.
Re: Non IKMF students
quote KMyoshi:I know at KMW you still need the minimum hours for your level. Level 1 I believe is 40 hours minimum (4 months), Level 2 is 60 (6 months), Level 3 is 80 (9 months), Level 4 is 100[?] (9 months) so on and so forth. They only have the minimum months as a guideline if you train 2-3 classes (hours) a week. If you train more often (4+ classes a week) you’ll reach the hours much faster. I think the time put into training has more importance than how long you’ve been training at your level. When I was at level 1 I was able to train 6-8 classes a week just because there was so many level 1 classes available to attend. I made the minimum hours within 3 months, got my permission to test form signed but I didn’t actually test until I trained 60-ish hours of level 1 and about 6 months in.I “THINK” that time limit at a place as large as KM NTC is a positive step…going by hours in…the reasoning is in my mind that you will have a student training at a variety of times under various instructors….unlike at my school where I train under one bjj instructor…yes purple belts help but he knows us and promotes when he damn well feels like you deserve it…far and few in between
If I trained krav with CJ’s Dad everyday he would know my level but thats not the case in a larger school with multiple classes…thus time in is a good way to ensure at least that your familar with the material..and I know in krav just because your testing you still can fail…not so in a lotta arts…so it definitely has a place and can be positive
IMO if I’m at a smaller school and I trust my instructors knowledge and skill level I trust him to teach me as I can absorb it no matter the class level..at NTC i felt that way about Sam sade, Cristian and Sean for sure…but thats why i picked the school…I don’t worry about belt/level….if I hit a point where I’m not learning anything new its either because they don’t know anymore or my ego has gotten in the way
Thats the hard question because most of us find it easier to lay blame outside…not saying thats the OP’s case but its a thought all of us need to approach at times
Re: Non IKMF students
quote CJs Dad:I just spit some of my tea out.Let me recant a conversation with an “instructor” from another organization.
“whats with the Black Belt, last I checked you were a green belt and didn’t pass the Alliance phase level 1 course”
Him: “My schools not with Alliance anymore and its honorary because I’m a “Black Belt instructor”
“so let me get this straight, you’ve tested to green belt but you WEAR a black when you teach even though you have zero instructor training?”
Him: “Im the head instructor at McDojo Krav Maga, GM Douchebag gave it to me”
Recently I’ve heard he’s no longer teaching or training
LOL…all systems have this sadly..not as bad as kenpo ….yet;):
Re: Non IKMF students
Just because you train in something 2/4/6 hours a week, doesn’t mean you know how to do it properly. Think of all the ****ty drivers on the road. They may know the rules of the road, but cannot apply it correctly.
The issue becomes, does your instructor know what he’s doing and can he help you advance? Is there a monetary motivation for you to be held down? Maybe he knows something you don’t? Or maybe he only knows so much.
There are a lot of variable to consider. I would ask about your own progress as it pertains to what you are looking for and if you’re not happy, bolt.
At the end of the day, a belt is only good enough to hold up your pants if your instructor is no good.
.03
Re: Non IKMF students
quote bear34:There you go. You found the point that I was trying to make. I certainly understand Kevin’s point but the levels in the IKMF naturally build off of techniques learned in earlier levels.It was actually 6 weeks, training upwards of 6 hours a day with Imi and his top instructors at the time, some of who are known worldwide, as heads of various organizations.
Re: Non IKMF students
quote bear34:I’m a bit upset with my school right now. I am at a level where a new more advanced class is needed(in IKMF it is Graduate level which is green through brown belt.) The school seems to be dragging it’s feet so all that is available is repetitive Practitioner level classes with a smattering of G level techniques thrown in.I love the people who run my school but they are losing my business because I don’t want to keep paying for something I’ve frankly done to death. I’m not saying that I couldn’t improve on my P level techniques but without a G level class I’m just losing interest.
We had/have this problem too – and I’m not trying to rub it in Bear, but I feel lucky that our school is doing something about the problem. Our chief instructor/owner recognized this, knocked down 4 or 5 walls, added two new matts, is adding more 2,3,4 level classes, and has added 5 new lower level instructors certified (the vetern instructors have all tested up so they can teach higher level classes).
I think it is really important that your instructors (not just the chief instructor) be familar with the progression of each student, as well as a student’s hours/months spent training. That is why our school has pre-tests for all levels past green – our chief instructor really wants to see who is progressing at what rate.
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