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I was discussing krav with a security guard at work and it went something like this:
We started by discussing when and whether to interfere in someone else’s fight, and I said that since learning krav I’m less likely to interfere because I can tell if someone’s really going to get hurt. Then he mentioned weapons, which of course ups the odds someone will get hurt… so I took away his “knife” and his “gun” (not his actual gun!) and then I got out of his bear hug from behind… and he was pretty impressed.
Then he said “Okay how do you disarm someone who does *this* to you?” and he put his hands on my shoulders. haha “What? Rip off your actual arms?” Nooo he meant a strangling so I said “oh *that* – we learn that on the first day!” and I proceeded to demonstrate the pluck (he was reluctant to put his hand on my throat hahahaha) and the various ways to inflict pain afterward. Then I demonstrated front choke with a push and choke from behind. At various points I said “In reality this would be really painful” but I suspect it didn’t really need to be said. :D:
I hope he’ll still come when I call for help! I’d much rather do my job than his.
Re: Oh *that* We learn *that* as beginners!
I hope after that demo he’ll decide to join KM. Would be nice to have a security guard who knows all of these defenses.
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GiantkillerRe: Oh *that* We learn *that* as beginners!
We’ve had two security guards get injured with fists & one is on permanent disability now. Yet the focus is still on x-raying everyone’s bags and qualifying on their handguns. What good is a handgun when a sucker punch comes at you?
Re: Oh *that* We learn *that* as beginners!
quote Guerriere:What good is a handgun when a sucker punch comes at you?Out of curiosity…
I think I’ve heard you mention it before and I get the feeling the legality of using a handgun in some situations has cost one of your co-workers some amount of mobility. Have you all asked for some less-lethal forms of self-defense which you might not be so hesitant to use in a confrontation to accompany the handgun? Something like a taser maybe?
Re: Oh *that* We learn *that* as beginners!
quote vwr32:Have you all asked for some less-lethal forms of self-defense which you might not be so hesitant to use in a confrontation to accompany the handgun? Something like a taser maybe?I <3 Tasers. For all you military and LE people out there… Has anyone tried the Taser that mounts on a picitinny rail? I’m VERY interested in getting one of those bad boys, but I want to see if anyone has any experience with them first.
J-
Re: Oh *that* We learn *that* as beginners!
quote Guerriere:What good is a handgun when a sucker punch comes at you?About as much good as anything else…..Worthless. A sucker punch, by definition, implies that situational awareness was lacking. A better man than me stated that “one is no more armed because he has possesion of a gun than he is a musician because he owns a piano”. But me personally, I’ll take a Glock 21 with my Krav because I’m a cautious fellow……
Re: Oh *that* We learn *that* as beginners!
quote downforlife76:I <3 Tasers. For all you military and LE people out there… Has anyone tried the Taser that mounts on a picitinny rail? I’m VERY interested in getting one of those bad boys, but I want to see if anyone has any experience with them first.J-
Have no experience with a Taser but I’ll never forget the OC Spray 🙂
I now own OC Gel which looks like some pretty nasty stuff (I test the bottle often)
Re: Oh *that* We learn *that* as beginners!
quote vwr32:Out of curiosity…I think I’ve heard you mention it before and I get the feeling the legality of using a handgun in some situations has cost one of your co-workers some amount of mobility. Have you all asked for some less-lethal forms of self-defense which you might not be so hesitant to use in a confrontation to accompany the handgun? Something like a taser maybe?
A taser isn’t any good either if you don’t have your hand on it at the precise moment you need it. The security guard who’s on disability was injured waking up a sleeping homeless man in front of our building. The other one was dealing with a rather common situation when the woman suddenly punched her in the nose. In the first case he probably would have been justified using his gun but he couldn’t get to it because he’d been taken down (and taken by surprise). In either case, imho knowing some krav would have done them more good than having a weapon. They both know how to handcuff and all that but they weren’t prepared for these surprise attacks.
Re: Oh *that* We learn *that* as beginners!
quote Guerriere:A taser isn’t any good either if you don’t have your hand on it at the precise moment you need it. The security guard who’s on disability was injured waking up a sleeping homeless man in front of our building. The other one was dealing with a rather common situation when the woman suddenly punched her in the nose. In the first case he probably would have been justified using his gun but he couldn’t get to it because he’d been taken down (and taken by surprise). In either case, imho knowing some krav would have done them more good than having a weapon. They both know how to handcuff and all that but they weren’t prepared for these surprise attacks.It sounds like you are talking about poor tactics and lacksidasical situational awareness. If you’re rousting a sleeping homeless person, you should already have some sort of less lethal deployed. That’s tactics 101. Further, while dealing with ANY person, an Officer (or guard, etc) should always maintain proper standoff distance to allow access to options. Also tactics 101.
Re: Oh *that* We learn *that* as beginners!
Yep, exactly. Merely having a gun doesn’t give someone a cloak of magical protection that allows them to forego common sense and unarmed training. This guard is like 6’6″ and almost 300 lbs so he had also most likely counted on his size protecting him too. Being intimidating is only useful against people who are intimidate-able! When you encounter the brave or stupid or crazy or stoned or desperate person who doesn’t care that you’re 6’6″ and carry a gun you need to have a Plan B.
Re: Oh *that* We learn *that* as beginners!
while I believe in making “plan B” a personal priority (self-defense taught by a competent instructor), I’m surprised there isn’t a SOP within the security firm which addresses situational responses. Simply strapping a gun on someone and telling them they “better be certain” before they draw it is irresponsible on *their* part as a security firm IMO. Kudos to u for initiating “plan B” on your own. In a perfect world, your employer would reimburse (or partially reimburse) your class fees.
Sorry if this doesn’t make sense. I’m typing this at a bar on my iPhone and am currently on my 8th Guinness. $5 each for bottled… WTF? Plus a dollar tip each one. Omg
Re: Oh *that* We learn *that* as beginners!
I am considering asking for reimbursement plus money to go to Winter camp! They sent me to a location without security guards and I’ve had to call the cops at least twice a week, sometimes twice in a day.
Our security guards do get some training but obviously there are gaps. Some are contracted & some are our employees. The rest of us have an option to take a one-day class which I’ve taken. The class was pretty lame. They gave us info on workplace violence and then after we all figured out we were high-risk the only self-defense they taught us about an hour’s worth of self-defense, 45 minutes of which was verbal deescalation.
Re: Oh *that* We learn *that* as beginners!
vw, you are getting drunk in a bar all by yourself while reading the Krav Maga forum on your I phone? You must be very lonely…
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GiantkillerRe: Oh *that* We learn *that* as beginners!
quote Giant Killer:vw, you are getting drunk in a bar all by yourself while reading the Krav Maga forum on your I phone? You must be very lonely…_________________
Giantkillernot a pretty picture huh?
Re: Oh *that* We learn *that* as beginners!
a 1 day class for security training???! That’s totally unacceptable and quite frankly very scary.
I am in the Military and just last year I had to stand Security duty for 4 months on two separate Navy bases and I was required to go through 2 weeks worth of training in addition to the training I already had. You can’t learn enough in 1 day it’s impossible.
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