"On the street"

[guerriere]

Re: "On the street"

Funny how youtube makes you swear you’re of age to watch something that was aired on TV.

This video & others I’ve seen show how rare it is for people to use feet or knees in street fights. Would a knee or kick to the groin in itself have the element of surprise?

[dirtyhippieute]

Re: "On the street"

quote vwr32:

I’m curious tho, how would you set up a course if you had the option? Guys follow thru with the next layer and the women execute an eye poke and run out of the gym? Maybe the guys can run over and protect the women when they scream?

I think I would put a little more emphasis on putting a finger in the eye and then making space (for everyone) rather than turning into an attacker, binding on, and going into the knees.

An example… Choke from behind. After you pluck, smack the nuts, elbow to the chin, why turn in to your attacker, and start throwing knees and elbows? Why not squirt out, get behind the attacker and then make the decision to split or fight?

quote vwr32:

At that point I think it would cease to be krav and would take on a face more familiar to women’s self-defense courses taught at the Y in a one or two hour seminar.

Love those classes, I went to one with a friend. It was taught by a lady who has a black belt in TKD. She was showing some punch defenses and round kicks. When it was over (and she left) the two cops that were of running the event got up and found a tactful way to say that they would be inviting someone else to give a “follow up” class in a few weeks that would show how someone who didn’t want to get killed should do it.

[vwr32]

Re: "On the street"

quote DirtyHippieUte:

I think I would put a little more emphasis on putting a finger in the eye and then making space (for everyone) rather than turning into an attacker, binding on, and going into the knees.

An example… Choke from behind. After you pluck, smack the nuts, elbow to the chin, why turn in to your attacker, and start throwing knees and elbows? Why not squirt out, get behind the attacker and then make the decision to split or fight?

I’m trying to picture a class where you poke their eye and run off. I doubt I’d pay premium prices to learn that.

Choke from behind… You’re assuming the attacker is just going to stand there while you circle behind him (or her…women attack too!). You’ve just stunned the person with a groin strike and elbow to the chin. Why disengage and then risk having to re-engage if you’re already in that close?

It seems to me you’ve only been doing krav for a short while but have decided it’s too dangerous for the ladies and the majority of the people in your class. Keep in mind it is the h2h basis for the IDF, men and women alike.

Your statement that “their best defense is going to be the good ol’ scream and run defense” hints at having already second guessed the system and now you know better than those who have battle tested it in Israel or had to rely on it here in real situations. We’re lucky that Mr Nir Maman has been reading the forum lately. He can personally inform the Israeli Defense Force there is no use in training krav anymore because DirtyHippieUte says it’s better to just poke them in the eye and run away.

I understand what you’re saying, I just completely disagree. beer

[giant-killer]

Re: "On the street"

There actually used to be a variation to choke from behind (not sure if it’s still done?), where you would kind of duck underneath the attacker’s extended arm (after the side step) and hold it in a type of arm lock, then kick from a distance and/or run.

As for the danger of staying in longer than one should, not sure if it would really be a problem. If you are not looking for a fight and are suddenly attacked, I think you’d instinctively want to get out of there as soon as possible. So, as soon as you feel safe, I’m sure you’ll automatically opt to run rather than to stay and try to deliver unnecessary counters as soon as you see the opportunity to. You’d only stay if you are really p.o’d at your attacker and maybe want revenge, but I think most people would rather get away, especially if they are facing someone a lot bigger and stronger.

________________
Giantkiller

[jburtonpdx]

Re: "On the street"

We tend to teach until the threat is gone. This is going to vary based on circumstance. As has been posted before – yes the nike defense is valid and encouraged. I do talk about it as well as the other instructors at our school. Thing is, we teach Krav Maga. That involves combatives and the use of them in self defense situations.

We do point out that running away is a valid and very good way to defend yourself. I believe that I point it out at every class. We also teach what to do when you are not able to run away. If I have my kids with me and they cant run, then I have to stay and fight regardles of the circumstance. I dont care if there are 5 of you, if my kids are in immediate danger, Im fighting, and I would never teach somebody that it was wrong to stay and defend their child.

The way I see it, I dont have to teach somebody how to run away. Thats something that sort of explains itself. What the student comes to me to learn is the option of fighting. Either way can change them from victim to survivor and I aplaud anybody that chooses not to be a victim.

As far as using the term – “On the street”, not sure how you are interpreting that – if I say it, I usually just mean, outside of the classroom. Its not meant to imply “in the hood” or anything like that. Could be walking to your car from work, could be in the driveway of your house. Heh, it could mean at the soccer field on a Saturday watching your child play. I dont care where you are, I just want you to be safer and to enjoy the peace that self confidence brings.

[dirtyhippieute]

Re: "On the street"

As I read this thread I realize that the main problem is my lack of faith in the ability of members of our society to think for themselves. This may be a product of reading countless lawsuits filed by stupid people who are incapable of recognizing danger unless there is a warning on the box. I’m not joking, this is a common problem among students of the law. After a while you start shoveling your driveway every half hour because you’re afraid the paper boy is going to slip and sue you because he got a boo boo on his knee…

quote vwr32:

I’m trying to picture a class where you poke their eye and run off. I doubt I’d pay premium prices to learn that.

Damn you and your rational thinking! That is probably the point that should carry the day. People should know to keep the “poke and run” defense in mind but probably shouldn’t have to pay to be taught that.

quote vwr32:

He can personally inform the Israeli Defense Force there is no use in training krav anymore because DirtyHippieUte says it’s better to just poke them in the eye and run away.

lol… cute…

[vwr32]

Re: "On the street"

quote DirtyHippieUte:

Damn you and your rational thinking! That is probably the point that should carry the day. People should know to keep the “poke and run” defense in mind but probably shouldn’t have to pay to be taught that.

I liked the point jburtonpdx made about not having to teach someone how to run away. I don’t really look at training as a step by step process of what to do in each attack/counter attack, instead everything learned counts as weapons in my arsenal of what I might use.

For that “soccer mom” who gets attacked, what if she’s pushing her baby in a stroller? Can’t imagine just leaving the child, nor being able to run fast enough with the stroller in front. The krav dad who has his kids with him who wouldn’t be able to keep up. Being attacked in an elevator (wing chun or not). Running isn’t always an option, I’d like to think that’s where krav kicks in. (Pun intended)

[jjk]

Re: "On the street"

We just had a seminar where we drilled the “running away” aspect of Krav. We first defended an attack, counter attacked, then we could either run towards one of two safe zones.

One was the door to the gym which you had to get within 5 feet of. The other was a sword placed on the wall, which was suppose to be the kitchen. With a lot of people going at it, you were suppose to decide in the spur of the moment which one was better for you. Maybe there were too many people going for the door, even though it was closer, making it a bad choice. Maybe your maneuvered the attacker in between you and the kitchen, so you had to high tail it to the door.

and to be fair… there’s a difference between military training and civilian training. For instance, in the military you might want to kill your attacker, in civilian training you might just want to go home for dinner. Let’s make that distinction ok?

[bull1189]

Re: "On the street"

JKK, could you pm me the details of that drill. It sounds interesting and useful.

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