May 8, 2007 at 6:32 pm #53466garddawgMember
As an S&C coach, I’m looking for measurable performance increases. There are very few supplements that do that. A few years ago, people were taking ephedra. As a coach you could see a measurable difference. More reps completed, bigger loads moved, faster times. Creatine has some modest success in this realm, but mostly in the well trained. It’s benefits tend to be in the recovery phase allowing faster and more complete recovery for the athlete.
Most of the rest of the stuff is nonsense. You would get better results from hiring a trainer to help you dial in your diet and eat cleanly than taking all the supplements. Of course if you want to throw your money away that’s up to you.May 8, 2007 at 7:31 pm #53467maskedkatMember
If you can check out the sources of your whey or soy products, please do. A number of HUMAN food products containing wheat gluten, and soy proteins from China have been found to contain melamine.
Sorry – I originally included whey but it is not on the list.May 9, 2007 at 12:50 am #53471
Scary stuff indeed. Whey is milk based, but that doesn’t mean other ingredients aren’t included. As per your link, I also saw no discussion of whey protein, so some people might feel safe with something like 100% whey protein (the one I use is Optimum 100% whey). But with a little research, one of the ingredients is lecithin, which is a soy based product… largely produced in China as a matter of fact. The real question becomes \”how many different products rely on the questionable protein sources and to what degree?\”.
For example, whey protein concentrate is used as a stabilizer in yogurt. From wikipedia: \”Soy protein is used in a variety of foods such as salad dressings, soups, imitation meats, beverage powders, cheeses, non-dairy creamer, frozen desserts, whipped topping, infant formulas, breads, breakfast cereals, pastas, and pet foods.\”
And that’s just for soy. The possibly tainted sources are so widely used in a variety of products, it’s almost a waiting game to see who, if any, gets sick then quickly identify. So I haven’t thrown out my whey protein yet…. nor my salad dressing.
garddawg, I agree with the statement that \”most is nonsense\”, and I’m probably one of the few supplement users who looks forward to more controls from the FDA over what claims can be made by the makers, as well as better testing. But that’s where I have to take you to task.
Even if someone who has \”dialed in\” their diet via a hired nutritionalist, are you suggesting they wouldn’t feel the effects or experience a more intense workout due to something along the lines of RedBull? Caffeine, b-vitamins, niacin…. these are real and are also a part of many energy supplements. Like I said before, I have nothing but respect for those that opt to go the purely natural route. But it’s not for me lol… even if I’m paying for a placebo effect. But with n.o. xplode….. that’s just not happening. 😉
Speaking of which… time to go xplode in the garage. lol.May 9, 2007 at 2:51 am #53472garddawgMember
A good analogy would be someone that uses premium gas in their car, but fails to take care of the engine. It’s a waste of money, produce negligeble results. Take care of the engine, make sure it is running correctly, then decide if you need to buy the more expensive gas.
Most people will swear they have a great diet, they don’t. Most people will swear they workout intensly, no offense, but they don’t. Those two things should be dialed in, with longterm measurable results, before they start monkeying around with supplements.
As someone training, you might feel like you are getting a better workout, but that is anecdotal, and its how supplement companies take your money. Definitive measurement of a person work capacity with supplementation and without generally shows little increase with most supplements among well trained athletes. Even less amongst the un or poorly trained.May 9, 2007 at 3:24 am #53473laurarMember
I’ve trained under GardDawg in three different disciplines for a couple of years – going on three. His advice is dead on. I have gained more in every area by cutting things OUT of my diet and working more intensely than even taking ephedra back before they decided it could kill you. 😉May 9, 2007 at 5:18 am #53475
Agreed 100% on the diet and training intensity. We’ll have to agree to disagree about the supplements tho:
American College of Sports Medicine
\”Does Cr (creatine) Supplementation Enhance Exercise Performance?
Short-term Cr supplementation can lead to an improvement in performance. Most but not all of the studies indicate that Cr supplementation significantly enhances the ability to produce higher muscular force and/or power output during short bouts of maximal exercise in healthy young adults. Subjects in these studies have been of mixed athletic ability and training status, from relatively untrained novices to competitive college level athletes.\”
Pick some ingredients in the sports drinks and do some research. For creatine, it’s naturally occuring in meat. Caffeine in coffee and chocolate. Tuna is a good source for niacin. B vitamins in all sorts of things…. all of which are also in a can of RedBull or no xplode. To me, my 30 calorie scoop of no xplode trumps 500 calories of chocolate, tuna, fruits and leafy greens right before a workout.
And if that weren’t enough, I’ve seen the link for RossBoxing thrown around on here. From that site:
\”Clearly, there are several vitamins and minerals all pertinent to proper bodily function and athletic performance. It is nearly impossible to meet all of your requirements through diet alone. For this reason, it is important to complement your diet with a vitamin and mineral supplement.\”
I like my supplements, my healthy diet, and my intense workouts. Sure there’s room to grow in all three departments, but inclusion of one doesn’t mean the other two don’t exist. As long as the supplements don’t become replacements, I can’t argue with the results. You say they’re anecdotal, some studies show benefits, some experts disagree with the studies…. all I know is I’ve trained with and without and I’m not one to just throw money at something that doesn’t work for me.May 9, 2007 at 8:41 pm #53483giant-killerMember
I usually just drink water during workouts, but whenever I drank something like Gatorade or Red Bull (because it was provided during a seminar or so) I didn’t feel any difference in performance. I also didn’t expect anything from it, I just drank it because it was there (and free! 😉 ). So, I wonder if the placebo effect doesn’t play a part if you feel a noticeable difference. But I haven’t tried it much, so I couldn’t really be sure.
GiantkillerMay 10, 2007 at 3:54 am #53489
Re:quote \”Giant Killer\:
Water is the best thing to drink during your workouts imo. There’s a huge difference between gatorade and redbull tho. Gatorade (if it’s the energy drink from them) has no caffeine. Both have the normal b vitamins B6 and B12, niacin, and pantothenic acid (vitamin B5). Gatorade energy packs 78g of carbs as compared to RedBull’s 28g. Calories for the gatorade is 310 for a 12oz and redbull has 110 in 8.3 oz.
RedBull has roughly the equivalent to one cup of coffee amount of caffeine. Safe? Some people argue the caffeine causes dehydration. That’s a myth.
\”In 2005, Armstrong and his colleagues conducted an 11-day controlled study of 60 males to examine the bodyís response to caffeine intake. For the studyís first six days, all 60 men ingested roughly 226 milligrams of caffeine (the equivalent of two cups of brewed coffee) each day. On the studyís seventh day, the scientists separated the participants into three different groups: Twenty men maintained their present caffeine intake, 20 men doubled their caffeine intake to about 452 milligrams of caffeine (about four cups of coffee) per day, and the remaining 20 men avoided all caffeine until the studyís conclusion. For every participant, researchers monitored 20 different indices of hydration, including variables in the body, blood and urine.
At the end of the experiment, all 60 men still had similar hydration variables, says Armstrong. The studyís results, published in the International Journal of Sports Nutrition and Exercise Metabolism, suggest that drinking moderate amounts of caffeine does not lead to dehydration.\”
Some people say caffeine does \”nothing\” to promote increase in physical endurance. Again, highly researched field here.
\”Well-controlled laboratory studies involving running or cycling after taking placebo or 3-13 mg caffeine/kg body weight 1 hour before exercise have shown that caffeine improves endurance by prolonging time to exhaustion [1,2].\”
Caffeine acts as a stimulant on the central nervous system… that much is not placebo. It seems the general concensus for an acceptable and safe amount is in the 250-300mg per day range…. well within the range of a red bull or N.O. Xplode drink. The key here is to be aware of everything you consume, as we should be anyway. As stated before, some drinks like Spike Shooter packs a monster dose of 300mg in one drink, and places a warning on the can not to consume more than one can per day. I wonder how many people follow those directions and then continue to drink coffee or cokes after that.
If someone is happy with the workouts they get without energy drinks, more power to them. But energy drinks aren’t the \”evil\” side of fitness. I think everyone is simply looking to get the most out of their efforts, whether it comes from some well documented supplements or selecting Drowning Pool or Korn rather than sleepy elevator music. I did some research on the affects of music on athletic performance too… but if you believe something works, does it really matter if a few people say there is no real connection?
There is by the way… at least in some studies. On both issues.May 10, 2007 at 10:40 pm #53496giant-killerMember
Well, I agree, if you find it works for you, why not do it. I personally don’t like these types of drinks much, they are so sweet. I wonder if the sugar in them also enhances performance? Also, caffeine drinks such as Red Bull sometimes give me a bit of a headache.
GiantkillerMay 11, 2007 at 2:43 am #53503
Re:quote \”Giant Killer\:
I’ll have to agree on the sweetness issue…. it’s why I can’t stand anything but water during the workout. And the headaches are a common issue with some people and caffeine… everyone has a different reaction to it and to different amounts.
Sugar has always been something I’ve tried to avoid in the drinks, but not because of the sweetness, just because of the added calories. Gatorade seems to pack the sugar in there, and in looking around on the net, it seems the sweetness isn’t the only thing you have to worry about with the drinks:
\”On the roots of the teeth, Gatorade was more corrosive than Red Bull. Coke, apple juice, and Diet Coke followed in that order.
The difference in the effect isnít simply due to their sugar content. Gatorade is 6% carbohydrates, mostly sugars. Coke is about 10% sugar. Both are acidic beverages.\”
One of the main reasons I decided to try the no xplode was because it doesn’t rely on sugar… it uses splenda. The amount of water you mix with it determines the sweetness.
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