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GK, I was hoping you could share some light on something from your perspective; that of a much shorter and lighter person.
I was working on knife to the throat from behind with two really tall guys. One was 6í5î maybe 270lbs the other Chris is 6í8î so I thought to myself.. ìwhat would GK doî Now at 6í2î Iím no little guy but with Chris having 6î on me I could see where it would be like GK working with average sized guys.
To get around the size difference I placed one hand in the small of his back and arched him backwards so I could get the knife around his throat to do the technique.
Which in turn made me really appreciate what it must be like for GK at her size to have to constantly alter certain techniques to fit her body size.
And that leads me to my next question.
GK as a senior rank in the system who knows most of the material could you please enlighten not only me but some of the others in the forums who might be equally vertically challenged.
Iím sure you have a wealth of knowledge on this subject. I know from some of our chats you always ask ìwill this work for someone my sizedî
Can you do effective headlock/choke plucks against me/Amir?
When you do bear hug defenses do you need to do anything differently?
Iím sure theres plenty of techniques I havenít mentioned that you can think of where its difficult against someone out weighing you by 100lbs.
Please share your experience, I’d love to hear your opinion.
Thanks~
Quote CJ’s Dad:
\”I was working on knife to the throat from behind with two really tall guys. One was 6í5î maybe 270lbs the other Chris is 6í8î so I thought to myself.. ìwhat would GK doî\”
😆 😀
Now you know what I’m up against… Or not really, because if I go against a guy just 6inches taller and maybe 30 pounds heavier, I’m always thinking: \”Lucky me, a SMALL guy!\” 😆
If you’re having problems with these guys, imagine how a little 5’1”, 103 pounder must feel… 🙁
So, knife from behind, you mean the hostage situation, he is standing directly behind you, the arm holding the knife is put around the throat? In that one, we usually pluck the knife down, hold it there, then step sideways, underneath his arm and stab him with his own knife. That’s the one you mean? Actually, that one is almost a bit easier (I presume) with a taller person, because I can more easily step underneath his armpit, which is higher above me. I may not even need to bend my legs or back to get down low enough if he is a foot or so taller.
So yes, I think that one can work well. I don’t think it needs to be modified. What you are describing, about bending him back, sounds actually more like you being the attacker. Yes, in that case, it’s hard to reach, same for headlock. Kicking into the back of his knees, then bending him back can bring him down lower. Or you can just jump up his back to do the attack (like a little monkey! 8) ) If I were the attacker however, I would not try to put a much bigger person into a headlock. Too much wrestling. If I had a knife and wanted to kill him, I’d jump on his back, slit his throat and jump back off ( I think there is actually a KM sentry removal technique like that).
Amir choking me, holy s***… 🙁 Would I be able to defeat him? I’d like to say yes, but he isn’t here with me right now to set me straight. 🙂 In terms of strength, the pluck is designed to work even against bigger people and I have done it against big guys in class, but I don’t think they ever went full strength, but pretty strongly. Worked fine and you don’t need to completely remove the hands, as long as you get the pressure off your throat and then give a strong counter. Actually, if the guy has bigger hands compared to yours, it makes it easier to hook them, so you can then make your pluck. It’s just more mass to grab. 😉 Also, if the pluck isn’t working, you could do the standing version of choke with a push, arm up into the air, then turn sideways. It’s probably a stronger exercise, but less instinctive, which is why the pluck is usually shown more often.
Headlock, bear hug, now, as a smaller person, I would never attack someone that way, often I can’t even get my little arms fully around the guy’s waist. So, if you are having trouble with the attack, don’t worry, in real life you would probably use a different one.
As far as defending, I don’t think there would be any modifications. Of course, the stronger the guy is, the worse, but for headlock you’d either go for another pluck (which should work, even against a bigger guy, and all you really need to do is make some space to turn your head (if you haven’t already done so) ). If you absolutely can’t plug (or have a hard time reaching his hand, you could try to grab his hand, then take your feet off the ground, so that all of your weight is now pulling down on his hand, creating at least some space. I’ve done that in class a few times, even if you can’t get out, he still can’t choke you now with all of your weight pulling down (well, except for Amir of course, who choked me out when I did this as a defense for a headlock from the front, but even he had to use all of his strength and I wasn’t countering or struggling otherwise).
CONT’D:
Bear hug, no, they are mostly strong counters, get your hands free if caught, counter some more. If the guy intends to pick you up and dump you, there is little you can do, even if he is smaller. If he is just trying to hold you, most of our moves work well. Of course, anything is harder against a bigger guy, but for the most part our KM defenses work well, especially against unarmed attacks.
Now, once you are getting into knife defenses for example, angles change if he is taller, there may be more weight and velocity coming down as well and there may be some problems with that (especially for overhead knife I often find – he is no longer going back then forward and down at a slight angle, but rather high up and then straight down, making it hard for me to reach or do the block early if I see it).
Okay, good questions, let’s keep it up. 😀 Gotta go to training now, but if there’s anything else let me know. It’s always amusing to me when the big guys finally run into someone bigger and go, oh s***, I’m lost! 😉 😆
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GiantkillerRe:
quote \”Giant Killer\:CONT’D:Bear hug, no, they are mostly strong counters, get your hands free if caught, counter some more. If the guy intends to pick you up and dump you, there is little you can do, even if he is smaller.
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GiantkillerIf anyone intends to pick you up, big or small from a bear hug, be it front or back, I have been taught to wrap a leg around one of the attackers, and you cannot get thrown.
Try it sometime!
Nice response, GK! I’m 5’2 (I won’t go into weight LOL) and am the shortest person in my classes. So, this will something I print up and keep for future reference!
A
Yes, I know about wrapping the foot, we usually practice it in class when we work on bear hugs. Works quite well.
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GiantkillerI’m 6’3\” 250 and it’s unlikely that I will get picked up and thrown, but I do try and practice it, it is very effective and simple to learn and teach.
The attacker’s mind set was to pick the person up and throw or carry him, wrapping your leg prevents that obviously, but all of a sudden his plan went out the window and the confusion sets in giving you an opportunity.
.02
OK Plant I have a good question for you then since we seem about the same size.
When someone has me lifted as you describe and I wrap the leg before doing the groin heel kick I always feel like the person is going to slam me forward face first. As such I opt not to wrap but put my foot on their thigh so if we do go forward I have the delusion I might be able to base my foot out in time.
Granted it might be purely psychological on my part but I was never really big on being airborne either, really makes me uncomfortable.
So as a big guy if your airborne and you do the upkick donít you think they are going to buckle forward and then face plant you, even if its only accidentally in agony?
Wrapping the leg
Something else that can happen when executing the leg wrap/groin kick defense, is that the opponent can collapse straight down. This happened to me in Phase C. My partner was slightly shorter and arched his hips forward to lift me higher. I did not take this arch into account when executing the defense and therefore, my partner took a shot to the groin. He collapsed straight down, trapping my left foot behind his left knee and driving our combined weight onto my ankle. The resulting broken ankle made the rest of the final day miserable. But on the bright side, we both passed.
Most of the time, when anyonewraps themselves around me, I rop my weight and rarely will anyone pick me up.
Leaning forward slighly while lowering your base causes your opponent to loosen up the hold a bit, giving you an opportunity for combatives.
My personal favorite is a good hard knuckle tap to the top of his hand, anyone will open up and let you go, you grab the top hand or fingers then you spin them into an arm bar or a kimura.
May sound complicated but it truly isn’t.
As for the mule kick, if they don’t have a cup on, or you nail them in the knee, I can’t see any situation where they wouldn’t let you go first.
I would be attacking the hands as I go for the knee or groin to open them up anyway.
.02
As I understand it, the wrapping defense is used against an attacker, who lifts you up and keeps you there for whatever reason (maybe he is a lot bigger and tries to carry you somewhere, throw you into his car for example). If his intention from the onset is to lift and then dump you, the defense may not work, because you simply wouldn’t be able to react in time (if you noticed him approaching you before the grab, you would obviously turn and face him, forcing him to go for another type of attack, or you’d be able to counter before he even grabs you).
So, this attack seems to be one that is done by a substantially larger person, against a smaller one – for example Sean grabbing and lifting me. If he did, he would have a lot of control. I weigh about as much as a peanut, so he could shake me, carry me and still not lose his balance. However, if I wrap my leg around his, it would make it a lot harder for him to move, so it would give me an opportunity to then do the counter, hoping he will drop me and I can continue to fight.
Now let’s say Sean tried to attack Plantman in that way, he may be able to lift him, but it would be a lot harder to carry him anywhere and once Plantman starts shifting his weight while he is struggling (even without the wrapped foot), Sean might lose his balance and would have to drop him for that reason. So it doesn’t seem like a very good attack for Sean to make, unless his intention is to lift him for just a split second before dumping him, in which case our technique may not work anyway (although we have some techniques against bear hugs with a push).
So, I believe the technique was mainly designed for situations were a smaller person may be lifted by a bigger one. As a small person myself, I can confidently say that I would never attack a larger guy in that manner. I’m coming from behind, surprising him, why not just hit the giant with a rock instead of trying to power lift him across the street?
As for breaking the ankle, hmmm, sounds like a freak accident, then again may not be. Why was your ankle behind the knee, not the calf? Maybe you did something wrong when you did the wrap? I’ve got short legs in comparison to a lot of attackers, but my foot is usually somewhere behind the attacker’s calf if he lifts me up. Maybe you pulled your leg up too high? Anyway, glad you guys both passed… 8)
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GiantkillerRe:
quote \”Plantman\:My personal favorite is a good hard knuckle tap to the top of his hand, anyone will open up and let you go, you grab the top hand or fingers then you spin them into an arm bar or a kimura.May sound complicated but it truly isn’t.
02
Thanks for the 02 and I know the move but with my Kenpo bg I tend to like to drop my weight on an outstretched elbow with a forearm/hammer. Or at the very least control point them to the ground via armbar.
BTW Jerremy are you in Chatsworth? I was just there tonight for dinner.. small world.
So, would you let go with one hand to smash the elbow? If you did, would you lose your grip/leverage on the attacker’s arm? Usually, when you do the finger/spin move, the attacker’s face is low enough for a kick to the face. Might be the quickest, most efficient counter you could make.
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GiantkillerThe hand squishing the attackers hand holds while my other hand releases the bent fingers and grabs the wrist. The squishing hand then lets go and applies the elbow pressure or drop weight strike to elbow. Make sure and pull the hand holding their wrist to you and insuring their arm is outstretched not bent. You can also grab the back of their bicep and roll them forward for more control (with your free hand)
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