Home Forums Krav Maga Worldwide Forums KM Techniques & Krav Maga Books Question about bayonet stab, page 333

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  • #30086
    giant-killer
    Member

    On page 333, for bayonet stab to the dead side, the \”hanging\” defense is shown. Would it also be possible to apply the regular long gun technique (page 323) in that situation? Realistically, the \”hanging\” technique appears to be harder to pull off.

    Also, as you are \”hanging\” the attacker, what type of injury is this likely to cause to him? Could this break his neck, or could the pressure of your arm against his neck crush his windpipe? Could you choke him from there?

    If your \”hanging\” wouldn’t result in him losing consciousness immediately, could he use the rifle to hit you in the ribs, hurting you enough for you to possibly let go or lose hold of him? How would you continue the defense from there, ensuring that you would get control of the rifle? Would you ever consider hitting his neck with an outside chop as you are stepping in, to give a strong counter (and maybe \”softening him up\”), before \”hanging\”him?

    If you opt for a hip throw, how would you disarm him once he hits the ground? Or would you just use strong counters and then run? He’ll probably be lying on top of the rifle after the throw, so it may be hard to get to for a disarm.

    _________________
    Giantkiller

    #55005
    johnwhitman
    Member

    There is an assumption that someone trying to attack you this way is charging toward you, in which case the \”hanging\” defense is sometimes easier than the dead side defense. However, if someone is standing and poking at you, the dead side defense can work.

    The defense can choke the attacker, or throw him. As an example of how effective it can be, Jessen was actually choked out during the picture sequence you see in the book. I’m not joking. He was on Darren’s hip for about 5 seconds and was out.

    #55026
    giant-killer
    Member

    So, the counter is the choke then? Being choked out in a few seconds sounds impressive, but still, I’m just wondering, does it give the attacker time to try and wiggle out of the hold? Or use the bayonet he is still carrying to hit or stab the defender, prompting him to let go? In picture 4 looks like Darren could be open for a strong butt stroke to the ribs or possibly a stab on the other side of his body.

    What about other enemy fighters jumping to his aid while you are standing there with him on your back, waiting to choke him out? Also, is there any telltale sign that would indicate to the defender when the attacker has lost consciousness? If not, how do you know when to let go? If you are wrong, or even if he is out for a moment, as soon as you let go he may come back to life and he still has the rifle/bayonet.

    A throw may be more effective, at least you slam him hard to the ground, but even there he still has the rifle. Of course, as a smaller person I’m wondering if I could pull of the throw or the \”hanging\” with any effectiveness at all.

    Also, would you ever consider, instead of going for the lift as shown in picture 3, spin inward instead, to his back and get him in a regular rear-neaked choke? I know there is also a way of breaking someone’s neck from the RNC position (standing behind the attacker), stepping backwards while keeping his legs in place, pushing his head down. Would that be a quicker, more effective way to try and incapacitate (or kill) him?

    _________________
    Giantkiller

    #55052
    giant-killer
    Member

    Oh, and how about a punch to the throat as an alternative, before doing the \”clothesline\”? It would probably interrupt the flow of the move, but it looks like the attacker’s neck would be very vulnerable if I manage to push his head all the way back with my other hand and even a moderately strong punch might cause some damage. It may soften him up a little, or maybe it could be an alternative, in case he is too big for me to attempt the hanging or the throw.

    _________________
    Giantkiller

    #55053
    johnwhitman
    Member

    No problem at all turning it into a throw. I don’t think a punch is necessary because the move itself acts as a \”clothesline.\” There is a lot of impact.

    #55071
    giant-killer
    Member

    So, I guess the biceps would hit the throat then while doing the \”clothesline\”. I suppose it could be a strong counter, with all of the momentum. I guess I’m just wondering about the \”hanging\” and the throw, because of my size disadvantage. I can see how this could work well against a same-sized or smaller person, but, while looking at the pictures, I was suddenly imagining an angry Darren charging me with the bayonet and somehow I didn’t see the throw happening… 🙂

    I think someone that much bigger than me would either slide off the side as I would attempt the throw, or his weight would push me to the ground. In that case, a strong punch to the throat and maybe running or even trying the regular rifle takeaway might be an alternative. Maybe not a pretty one, but possibly more doable than a throw or \”hanging\” in that situation.

    _________________
    Giantkiller

    #55272
    giant-killer
    Member

    Yesterday, we were working on a regular throw, but the one where you drop down to your knees and pull the opponent down and then over. While doing this, I was wondering if that method could work for the bayonet technique, in case the attacker is too big to lift and throw the regular way. Might that be possible, or wouldn’t it work, because of the different position he is in (as opposed to a regular throw, underhooking the arm)?

    Also, of course, you’d end up on the ground with a guy who still has the bayonet.

    _________________
    Giantkiller

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