Question about kick defenses

[giant-killer]

At the top of page 88 of the book, it is stated that \”whenever possible, Krav Maga prefers to defend kicks with the legs.\”.

I know that’s how we usually practice it, but I was wondering, in a street fight, is defending with the legs really always the best option? In class we virtually always use shin guards and even then you might feel the impact, especially going against a much bigger person.

So, if you saw the attack early enough, in a street fight, might it be better to try and move away from the kick, or absorb it, rather than to do the leg defense? Absorbing, of course, has it’s own challenges, but a bruise to the thigh may be better than one to the shin.

Getting out of the way of the kick (or moving in and jamming it) might be the safest option, because if the attacker fails to make impact, it does not matter how strong his kick is. He’ll miss and I might be able to move back in to strike. Or I move in close, jam the kick (might turn into a knee of course, something to watch), but now I could counter from there.

I’m mostly thinking about round kicks here, as front kicks may be safer to deflect with the leg.

Any comments?

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Giantkiller

[johnwhitman]

Any time you can move away from a strike, that’s always a fine idea. It’s just not much fo a way to build a system. So yes, if you can step away from a round kick, sure!

I would consider absorbing a round kick on the thick as one of the leg defenses, so I agree with this. Yes, it has its own challenges, but remember that in a street fight you’ll have to absorb one or MAYBE two of these before the fight ends.

Same thing with shins. It’s not going to feel good, but we’re talking about shock absorbing, and dealing with perhaps one kick.

[unstpabl1]

Having watch shin to shin knockouts at MT matches, I really appreciated their conditioning. Not that Mr Whitman needs any validation, but of course avoidance would be the first option, then the leg the next, cause you don’t have to drop your guard. Guess thats why you gotta keep kicking that hard Thai banana bag

[blindfold]

I know in our class we usually practice both absorb and defending with the leg. The instructor stated that it depends more on where you are when they throw the kick. If you are a little closer it may be easier to absord. If you are farther away either move or defend. So he tries to present both circumstances to us.

[giant-killer]

I like the idea of avoidance first, especially if the guy is bigger. Of course, that’s not always possible. One thing I’ve noticed – and i know I’ll hate myself for writing this – is that if I sometimes just play fight around with another person, throwing some light kicks and punches, but not wearing shin guards, I feel as though I’m getting hesitant when it comes to defending kicks. When the kick comes, I want to instinctively lift the leg to defend, because that is what we always do, but then I realize I’m not wearing shin guards, so I tend to hesitate (and as a result may not defend at all).

Of course, if it’s about live or death, you may not take such things into consideration, as John said, it may just be one kick, but still it makes me think. If we are going to defend without shin guards in the street, maybe we should practice doing it (at least lightly) in class more often? It’s easy to forget about good form if you are wearing all of that padding. Whenever we do defend without shin guards, I find myself paying that much closer attention to detail. One mistake and there’s that three week bruise, so you better do it right. 🙂

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Giantkiller

[unstpabl1]

I may be wrong on this,but I don’t think even the Thai’s practice without shin guards. They fight too often. Couple times a month. real common to end up with 300 fights. Most of the conditioning takes place on the heavy thai banana bag

[giant-killer]

Or an iron pole… 🙂

Well, I’m not saying to do it all of the time or even in sparring, just lightly in class, on occasion, to get a feel for how to defend correctly. Whenever we do this I suddenly find I want to let my lower leg/shin cave in a lot more, to dissipate the force of the kick (or let it slide off).

By the way, it seems that there may be more than one way to do the shin against shin defense. The way it is shown in the book, the shin \”gives\” only slightly, then pops back out. In Muay Thai it seems that they turn the leg further out to the side and have their heels almost touch their butts when they defend. Is one way more effective than the other? What are pros and cons of both methods?

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Giantkiller

[unstpabl1]

Sean would know better.Asking him is way better than asking me. The Thais Tuck the body using the forarms to to protect the ribcage as well. they kick so damn fast and hard. Its one movement,essentially bringing the thigh to the elbow. Never lowering the guard, from waist to head. Trying not to leave gaps

[giant-killer]

Well, I wasn’t necessarily asking you, just a general question, anyone can jump in. 😀

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Giantkiller

[unstpabl1]

Re:

quote \”Giant Killer\:

Well, I wasn’t necessarily asking you, just a general question, anyone can jump in. 😀

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Giantkiller

The only reason I suggested Sean was he cornered fighters at Muay Thai gyms, for a great trainer. Of Course John would be a resource as well.

I was more putting my knowledge down, cause I don’t know shit, but still trying to give an answer. It is the net afterall

Oh and the gym I trained in way back when we did kick metal poles, but they were padded…kinda

[giant-killer]

\”Oh and the gym I trained in way back when we did kick metal poles, but they were padded…kinda\” 🙁 Hope your shins are okay now?

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Giantkiller

[johnwhitman]

Professional fighters train with shinguards.

In classes sometimes, I will have students do slow fighting without shinguards. It is very slow fighting. The lack of shinguards does 2 things: first, it forces people to fight slow; and second, it allows them to become slowly accustomed to the little sting of shin v. shin.

[unstpabl1]

Hi John, Thanks for chiming in. I couldn’t remember ever not seeing shin guards in training, but wasn’t sure. the Thai mentality is more of a Kamikazee approach. They believe the better conditioned athlete will win. Makes sense but they fight one guy in the same weight class, at an assigned time. I don’t think a person interested in SD can afford to think that way. Meaning avoiding a guys power, getting outta the way is first stage. But your gonna get hit, so block. I see that as what krav is saying? Yes?

I was at KMSO the other day, are your bags a little softer than a traditional Thai bag? Do you use Thai Pads or mostly kicking shields? I’m guessing the way to toughen up the shins is to simply kick.

As an aside I’ve seen both Kevin and Jarret teach this year, both were excellent. Also Congratulations on the book. I think its the best M/A book I’ve seen. Its a big compliment from me. You know me well enough from here to know if I don’t like something I’ll say it, but if I do I’ll go out of my way to promote it. Which reminds me, I need to post it on a few boards for you tonite

mike

[giant-killer]

Interesting that even Thai fighters use shin guards in training. Seems like those are the guys who do everything to toughen up their shins, even hit metal, until the nerves are basically dead.

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Giantkiller

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