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There seem to be several recent incidents of fighters coming in too heavy during the weigh-in before their fights. This seems to happen because of the practice of those fighters starving themselves to get in at a weight much lower than what they are normally weighing.
Wouldn’t it be better to hold a weigh-in right before the fight, instead of one day earlier? That way, if they want to starve themselves to try and fit into a weight category they don’t truly belong to, they can do so, but they wouldn’t have much time to put additional weight on. If they want to eat normally and fight at their natural weight, they can, too.
Any opinions?
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GiantkillerYeah, but what I’m saying is, starving yourself and not drinking for days is really cheating. I’m not sure of the history here, but it probably occurred to one (or several guys around the same time) that they might get an unfair advantage if they can drop a lot of weight for the weigh-in, then put it back on before the fight and thus be several pounds heavier than their opponent.
But then others caught on and now it’s just ridiculous – people not drinking for days, then putting 14 pounds back on overnight and in the end, since both people are doing it now, they still weigh the same. So why not cut the crap and just have them weigh in shortly before the fight, not giving them an opportunity to re-hydrate properly, which would make it useless to try and lose too much weight. If someone still wants to do it he could, but he would not be able to gain too much and even if he was a few pounds heavier for the fight, on the flip side, he would probably be tired, so it wouldn’t be much of an advantage. If a person wanted to play fair and fight closer to what he usually weighs, then he would have the advantage of being stronger, even if his opponent would weigh a few more pounds during the fight. So the advantages would be a toss up and everyone could chose what he wanted to do.
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GiantkillerManipulating the weigh in amount by dehydration has been around a long time. There’s something of a science to it to those who wrestle, box etc.
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quote \”CLFMak\:Manipulating the weigh in amount by dehydration has been around a long time. There’s something of a science to it to those who wrestle, box etc.I agree with CLFMak 😀 This is an art in itself. These guys know what to do to get the advantage. Realistically, Lutter was what 2 lbs over. You wouldn’t think its any advantage, but they ballon the next day. I get GK’s point, but dieting is stressful and fighters need that day to release and replenish.
A quote i once heard and found interesting was, \”the difference between professional and amateur is often the will to cut the weight.\”
i don’t see how you can tell someone what to eat. i mean if someone wants to be \”stupid\” enough to harm themselves… if they think it’s worth the risk… that’s their choice.
But the point of weigh-in is to make sure the two fighters are the same weight. SO, they should be on the day of the event.
maybe it’s \”cold,\” but weigh-ins are for the safety of the OTHER guy… not for the guy cutting weight.
I know dieting is stressful, but that’s just what I mean to say: If they could just agree to fight at their regular weight, the one they usually weigh when they are training and in good shape, without any cutting, then there would be no need for dehydrating and any other potentially harmful stuff. They could just watch their general weight, maybe not have that big breakfast right before the weigh-in, but there would be no need to starve themselves, which would be healthier for everybody.
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GiantkillerNot making weight, especially for a chamionship fight is inexcusable ….
I’d fight anyone, any day, that weighs what I do normally (which is about 155) … To get in the ring with someone that just dropped from 180 or so is another story. Happy to do it in the street, but doesn’t seem right in the ring if they drop to 155 just to get into the weight class … I recognize this is the \”norm\” but it just doesn’t seem right.
My $0.02
This is a great topic for rossraining as you have fighters who have to deal with this. Years ago, i was astounded at how much a fighter could lose in a week. They never told you how they did it 😉 and how much came back aFTER the weigh in. I’m sure part of this is from a promoters stand point. A fighter doesn’t make weight just before the fight , people demand money back. Be able to make weight can make great fights. I don’t think its inexcusable not to make weight. I think its amazibg that they can manipulate their weight as well as they can. Crap happens. Lutter was 2lbs over and didn’t fufill his end of the contract. He loses and its his fault and he coached himself. Its his fault and he was weak for the fight, next time I’ll bet you he hasw a coaCH 😆 But its only 2 lbs. Of course its okay to be 6 inches taller and have a 4 in reach advantage. Though mma has a way of being able to negotiate that( though monson may be annoyed with that statement) but boxing rules make that more of an advantage than weight to some degree. How do you find your perfect street fighter weight? I found mine….I’M TOO FAT TO RUN 😈
Mike –
\”Inexcusable\” was specifically directed to the recent fight (Lutter vs. Silva) … It’s the chance of a lifetime for Lutter!!! – While I agree that it’s amazing that they can drop the weight – If they’re going to do it, they have to be right on – especially for a title bout. As for me – I feel sorry for guys I fight that are my size (though there are a couple of guys at my school thatn are my size and they work me over) – I’d rather get my ass kicked by big guys (which happens regularly at fight class!) and I wouldn’t look forward to guys dropping weight into my weight class. I really would like to get in the ring, but I’m too old, too slow and if I dropped weight I’d be invisible!!! Is there any 155-160 weight class that has guys that really weigh that much day to day???
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quote \”kravjeff\:Mike –\”Inexcusable\” was specifically directed to the recent fight (Lutter vs. Silva) … It’s the chance of a lifetime for Lutter!!! – While I agree that it’s amazing that they can drop the weight – If they’re going to do it, they have to be right on – especially for a title bout. As for me – I feel sorry for guys I fight that are my size (though there are a couple of guys at my school thatn are my size and they work me over) – I’d rather get my ass kicked by big guys (which happens regularly at fight class!) and I wouldn’t look forward to guys dropping weight into my weight class. I really would like to get in the ring, but I’m too old, too slow and if I dropped weight I’d be invisible!!! Is there any 155-160 weight class that has guys that really weigh that much day to day???
Whats inexcusible is that Lutter was supposedly dumb enough to train himself for his chance of his lifetime. He set himself up to fail from the get go. As Mr. Rodgers would say \” Can you say self-sabotage. I knew you could\” 😯 😆 I think a lot of boxers stay close to weight, because its hard to take off. The thing is training for a fight is such a spartan lifestyle, that when your not its like spring break. Ithink its easy to let yourself go, course i’m speaking from expirience on the letting yourself go thing 😉 You could still fight a smoker. The thai gyms here have em’ monthly, all of them. I did one at 35,smoked a pack and a half a day at the time. It called a smoker, so i qualified 😆 It was an inhouse thing. It was funny everyone was gassed in the first minute or so. all the adreniline. Why I’m getting involved in this crap again is beyond me 😕
So, did you win?
Here is an interesting interview with Lutter in which he explains how he was trying bto make weight and while he failed. Stole this from the Bas forum. Please, don’t tell anyone!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:59 pm Post subject: Lutter Speaks on Not Making Weight Reply with quote
The deepest cut
Travis Lutter speaks after missing weight and losing to Anderson Silva
By Mike Chiappetta
NBCSports.com
Updated: Feb.8, 2007, 11:52 am ESTTravis Lutter won the opportunity of a lifetime when he bested seven other middleweights to win The Ultimate Fighter 4, giving him an opportunity to shoot to the front of the pack and challenge Anderson Silva for the UFC middleweight championship. It seemed like a Rocky Balboa-type story, but real life doesn’t always get its happy ending.Instead of defeating Silva for the title, Lutter lost his chance to even compete for the belt when he failed to make weight for their scheduled Feb. 3 matchup. It was a devastating development, and one most fans couldn’t understand.
How could he make such a mistake given the chance of a lifetime? Just like a fighter, Lutter didn’t hide from a difficult situation. In this exclusive interview with NBCSports.com, Lutter explained what went wrong and what he learned from the mistake.
(c) 2007 Zuffa LLC
Despite missing weight, Lutter appeared focused in the opening minutes, actually winning the first round.Q: How are you doing following the controversy and fight?A: I’m doing a lot better. I’ve recovered from the weight loss, and looking back, I know I lost but I felt like I was winning the fight up until I got caught. Anyone can get caught. I’m sure Anderson has been in that situation before, winning the fight but then getting caught and submitted. It happens.
Q: In the days leading up to the fight, did you at any point think you were in trouble as far as making weight?
A: I really didn’t think I was too heavy until about four hours beforehand. I knew at that time I was in a lot of trouble. I told the guys, this is not good. And the weird thing was, I was ahead of schedule on paper. We keep track of weight cuts from fight to fight. And as compared to my fight against Patrick Cote (in November 2006), we were 1.5 hours ahead as far as time.
But that’s when I got into trouble, as I began to quit sweating. The weight just quit coming off. We knew we were in trouble at that point. Once you stop sweating and your body says it won’t give up anymore, it’s very hard to lose weight. It’s painful and sucks but you keep trying.
Q: So there came a point where you physically couldn’t lose any more weight?
A: Yes. At some point, your body stops sweating. So it’s like, I’d be completely and totally dry in the same sauna that everyone else is dripping in. I just wasn’t sweating. We tried a wet sauna, too, but that didn’t work, either. I got out after 45 minutes and my weight was exactly same. It’s a very miserable, helpless type feeling.
Q: Did you know you were over when you got to the weigh-ins?
A: At 9 a.m. on the morning of the weigh-ins, you have access to the official scale, so you can weigh yourself and then compare your own scale to the official one.
So I knew I wasn’t making weight. I told [UFC President] Dana White I wasn’t making it.
Q: What was his reaction?
A: Dana was like, ‘Hey, you know what this means, right?’ You could just tell he wasn’t happy. But there was no one more disappointed than I. I don’t want to be the bad guy.
Q: When you weighed in at 187, what did you do to try to take off the final two pounds in two hours?
A: We went back in the sauna. I was arguing with my guys, because I knew I couldn’t make the weight. I told them I couldn’t because I hadn’t lost any weight in the last two hours and had only lost a total of one pound in last four, so how can I get any more water off? I sat in the sauna, the hot tub and went to the bathroom, and that led to a 1/2 pound loss. There’s not much else you can do. You don’t want to do something that will harm yourself.
I mean
CONTINUED:
I mean, as fighters trying to make weight, we’re trying to force ourselves within reason. It sucked, but there was nothing I could do. I was supposed to get two hours, but they only gave me 1.5 hours. It didn’t matter anyway. I wouldn’t have made weight.
Q: Did you start your cut too late?
A: I was 24 pounds down from when I started. It’s unfortunate. Generally, you try to come in as big as possible. I followed the same routine I’d followed before. In the Ultimate Fighter house, we had to be ready to make weight within a day, so I kept my weight lower. So this time I knew I was little heavier than normal, but didn’t think it was out of reason. Cutting weight isn’t an exact science. It’s hard to judge. There’s a fine line and I crossed over the line.
I fought six times in the last 12 months and had to make 185 each time. And I did it. Cutting weight isn’t something I love. It’s difficult and I made a mistake. We’ll change directions from now on. I consulted a nutritionist and I’ll do it differently in the future. I’ll probably start making the cut from 12 pounds out.
Q: Many people took umbrage with your comment about having trouble \”finding the motivation\” to cut weight. What did you mean by that?
A: I think that was taken out of context. I meant that six weeks before the fight, I was having trouble with motivation, and that’s only because I’d been cutting weight all year. With six fights in a year, I’d fought on average once every two months, so it was like spending the whole last year in training camp. I admit that in the beginning of this training camp, it was difficult to eat perfectly.
So six weeks out, yeah I was finding trouble with motivation. But in the last four weeks leading up to the fight, I didn’t. I need to talk to guys like Rich Franklin about his diet. It takes a lot of discipline. He seems to have it down to a science.
Q: Coming down to the octagon, you appeared visibly upset. At that point, were you 100 percent focused on the fight?
A: I was focused on the fight. I was having some stomach problems leading into the fight since I’d never quite cut that much. I was a bit depleted and tried to come back from that. So I was a little uncomfortable, but I was focused on the fight.
Q: You had a very strong first round, taking Silva down and eventually getting full mount. Did the extreme weight cut have you feeling sapped of energy while trying to finish him?
A: I didn’t feel sapped, but I didn’t feel as strong as I normally feel. What percentage was I off? I don’t know. I’m not going to claim that’s why I lost the fight. I felt good enough to beat him and was beating him. But I got caught in second round. I made a mistake and he capitalized.
Q: While you were in the triangle, did you tap due to the choke or to the elbow strikes?
A: I tapped because of the choke. I was good for a long time, but then I started to go out. With the strikes, I was on my way out and he hit me with strikes so I might have moved my body positioning a little because of them. But I tapped because of the choke. I was going to sleep. I’m not beat up at all.
Q: What effect do you think this will have on your career, if any?
A: As far as my career, someone asked Dana White if I’d be punished, and he said losing the fight was punishment enough. I take that to mean I’m still fighting in the UFC. I hope I am. If they say I’m not, I’ll fight somewhere else and make my way back. I’d rather fight here; I want to fight here, but I’m sure I’ll never make some fans back. But for every fan I lost, I have 20 or 30 e-mailing me, saying I did great.
Q: What’s in your immediate future?
A: I’m going to take a few months off. I don’t want to fight for five or six months. I fight better when I have a bit longer break. I’ll re-focus and see what the UFC has to say. I don’t know what they’ll do. I want to fight here, so the ball’s in their court. But five months off for me is reasonable. That’d be perfect for me.
The bottom line is I made a mistake. I’m not the first to miss weight,
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