Home Forums Krav Maga Worldwide Forums General KM Related Topics Twisted my Knee and Kicked in the face

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  • #32120
    farhan
    Member

    Four weeks ago I twisted my knee while carrying out a drill involving stomping multiple pads. Two days later got kicked in the jaw (left side) while learning how to do an arm bar. Sheesh some week.

    Went to the doctor ‘s office, the next day; after examining my knee he concluded it wasn’t anything major, just a ‘Sprained Knee’. Told me to take a break from Krav for about three weeks and prescribed NSAIDs. I had no swelling, no discoloration, and no loss in range of motion. Just this dull pain and grinding and popping on the right (outer side of the right knee).

    Now fast forward to today, the jaw is 95% better and I can finally open my mouth wide enough to eat. I have been icing the knee, wearing a brace, doing light strengthening exercises without any weights. After four weeks of being off, today was the first day I went back to Krav. It was very light, no kicks, no drills, no warm ups. Just ‘Gun Disarm’ principles. When I came back home I felt some pain and discomfort. Now I don’t know if this is a good pain (healing) or its getting worse. I would appreciate it if some one could tell me their experiences with a similar injury.

    #75870
    rfc
    Member

    Re: Twisted my Knee and Kicked in the face

    Welcome to Krav :chair:.

    My knee was hurt pretty good last year when someone next to me fell down and crashed into the side of my leg…

    You’re doing the right things… Ice or heat (whatever feels good at the moment) ibuprophen, plenty of massage and gengle flexing to keep the blood circulating. The grinding you hear/feel is likely due to inflammation inside the knee (ACL, PCL, Miniscus). If something in there is badly damaged, you would likely know it right away. When bad things happen, your knee usually locks-up because pieces of tendon or flaps of torn miniscus can interfere with joint motion. Very small rips and pulls have a way healing over time. Doctors can usually tell right away if something is badly torn.

    FWIW: Like you, I was out for a few weeks and gradually worked my way back up; at first, only taking 1-2 classes per week and avoiding anything that stressed it in ways I was uncomfortable with. In the beginning, it flared-up a little so you have to use common sense. After 3 months, everything was back to normal.

    Oh… It was very helpful to wear a knee brace -the kind that straps on above and below the knee. Your local sports store probably carries several kinds. Get one that has “medium-level” support.

    Good luck. If you’re really concerned or if things aren’t improving, see a sports-medicine knee specialist (Orthopaedic specialist).

    Ray

    #75871
    rfc
    Member

    Re: Twisted my Knee and Kicked in the face

    Oh a couple more things…

    Did you hyper-extend your knee by kicking down and missing the bag or possibly not make full contact when your leg was fully straight and extended or, did you simply twist it by stumbling?

    Also, how the heck did you get kicked in the jaw doing an armbar?

    Whatever… heal and heal with confidence. I’ve had a few semi-serious injuries and it rattled me at first. I guess that’s a normal reaction. These things happen and it teaches us to be more careful in training and it will also carry over if you get into a real fight.

    #75872
    farhan
    Member

    Re: Twisted my Knee and Kicked in the face

    …yup that is exactly what I did. I missed the pad and hyper extended my leg while the foot was twisted in ward.

    As far as the kick to the jaw; I was in some one else’s guard and when he swung his leg to do an arm bar, I caught his heel with my jaw.

    #75874
    rfc
    Member

    Re: Twisted my Knee and Kicked in the face

    OK… When my injury occurred, there was some swelling and no discoloration but, I could barely walk at the time it happened. People heard the pop from 15 feet away. I was unable to walk stairs for 2-3 days (had to traverse stairs on my hands n knees or bump down on my butt).

    One thing I found, was that the pains and discomforts seemed to shift-around as the days/weeks went by. Sometimes hurting under the knee-cap (patella) then shifting to the medial and lateral collateral ligaments (extreme inside and outside of the knee). At other times, my calf and thigh muscles hurt from top to bottom (ITB Iliotibial band).

    With twists, unless it’s a REALLY nasty twist, the medial and lateral collateral ligament(s) usually take the brunt. Unless those suckers get ripped, they usually heal-up pretty good.

    With hyper-extensions, it’s usually the ACL or PCL that gets stretched, torn or outright snapped and/or the meniscus gets a rip or rupture (usually a rip or slight tear). Ruptures tend to happen when you land hard straight on your leg.

    If you’re able to walk and your knee is not locking-up then, you probably have stretched ACL/PCL or have a slight rip in the meniscus. Bascically you’ll live and will recover well. You must continue to do all the things you’re doing. Swelling inside the knee is your enemy as it will make scar tissue etc. My osteo said it’s OK to work-out lightly but make sure you ice it to manage the swelling.

    BTW: With my injury, the medial/lateral ligaments, ACL, PCL and miniscus all took a hit. The Dr could feel the looseness in the ligaments and the slight tear in the meniscus showed-up in the MRI.

    I’m fine now.

    I found it VERY helpful to take Glucosamine, Chondrioten and MSM. I was/am a jogger for MANY years and I have rediscovered many times, that this stuff works. If you go this route, purchase high-quality products. I get mine at http://www.nutrabio.com. (All their products are top-notch. I’m not affiliated with them in any way).

    When my knee injury happened, I thought my life (and 15 years of jogging) was over. If you’re feeling a little freaked-out -you’re normal :beer:.

    #75887
    farhan
    Member

    Re: Twisted my Knee and Kicked in the face

    quote RFC:

    One thing I found, was that the pains and discomforts seemed to shift-around as the days/weeks went by. Sometimes hurting under the knee-cap (patella) then shifting to the medial and lateral collateral ligaments (extreme inside and outside of the knee). At other times, my calf and thigh muscles hurt from top to bottom (ITB Iliotibial band).

    .

    Yup same here, shifts every day.

    #76826
    farhan
    Member

    Re: Twisted my Knee and Kicked in the face

    quote Farhan:

    After four weeks of being off, today was the first day I went back to Krav. It was very light, no kicks, no drills, no warm ups. Just ‘Gun Disarm’ principles. When I came back home I felt some pain and discomfort. Now I don’t know if this is a good pain (healing) or its getting worse. I would appreciate it if some one could tell me their experiences with a similar injury.

    Its been a month and a half since I resumed KM training and my pain increased gradually. My Dr. scheduled an MRI and the results were clean. No structural damage, just inflammation. He put me on NSAIDs (Naproxen), two weeks later; I don’t feel a difference. I train very light and try not to use my leg as much. But I can’t sit out any longer, its driving me crazy. I don’t know why its taking this long to heal. I have asked my Dr. for a Cortisone shot.

    Has any one had Cortisone shots in their knees?

    #76827
    rfc
    Member

    Re: Twisted my Knee and Kicked in the face

    It’s good that you had an MRI for peace of mind.

    If you are seeing a “family doctor”, I personally would go see a sports/orthopedic doctor before rushing into cortisone shots.

    My knee hurt for several weeks and it took 4-5 weeks to heal enough to do moderate Krav then, 2-3 months more before I had full confidence it was OK. Various knee exercises (done properly and regularly) were a great help -and even now, it still gets a little stiff and needs good warm-up.

    When I was injured, I skipped the family doctor and went straight to a sports doctor.

    I know several people who’ve had cortisone shots and it’s not always the cure-all to end-all. Also, their doctors always did physical therapy and exercise before resorting to it. When you start to favor one leg over the other for weeks on-end, the injured leg can get weaker and things can get out-of-balance and lead to more problems. (BTW: This happened to me with my groin pull).

    My opinion: Take your MRIs to a another sports doctor for a second opinion.

    #76829
    farhan
    Member

    Re: Twisted my Knee and Kicked in the face

    I am dealing with a family doctor. And today I asked for a referral to a sports medicine doc. Even though I suggested a cortisone shot, I am not too sure about it (I had one in my shoulder about 8 years back and it worked wonders). I did a little more research and found out that there are studies that show it is not beneficial when administered to a ligament. When I suggested cortisone, I could tell that there was some reservation on the doc’s part.

    I am just getting really perturbed about not being able to train with normal intensity, the pain isn’t exactly something I care for either. I still ice it daily and use resistance bands.

    When you say it took you 2 to 3 months, till you had full confidence. Were you still training?

    #76834
    rfc
    Member

    Re: Twisted my Knee and Kicked in the face

    There could be subtle issues. For example, with my knee injury, things gradually evolved into an ITB (iliotibial band) problem which caused discomfort in the lateral knee ligaments. This required some resistance training and a lot of “unusual” stretching.

    These are examples of the advice a sports doctor or physical therapist can provide. Family doctors typically do not (but there are exceptions) provide this level theraputic advice.

    As for Krav… Don’t get frustrated. Just enjoy what you can, when you can.

    #76837
    aviatordave
    Member

    Re: Twisted my Knee and Kicked in the face

    I’ve never had a cortisone shot in my knee, but have in my shoulder. My trouble started when lifting – first shoulder presses would hurt, so I started limiting my range of motion. Then it started hurting on other exercises. It felt like an ice pick being jabbed into my tricep just above the elbow. Eventually it got so bad that lifting a gallon of milk out of the refrigerator or picking up my (then) 15 lb baby girl with both hands would hurt. I went to an orthopedic sports medicine specialis and some x-rays showed I had a rotator cuff tendon dragging across the bone. I was remodeling my house at the same time, and sanding walls, tiling, and weightlifting combined were too much.

    So they stuck a giant needle down into my shoulder joint. I guess it helped. At least the daily stuff didn’t hurt any more. I tried some compound lifts that involve the shoulder again 6 months later, and there was still pain. It took an additional 6 months before I could fully load it again.

    So for mine – the cortisone helped in that it relieved some of the daily pain. But the actual healing just took a lot of time and rest. My fear with getting a cortisone shot and continuing to work it hard is that you might be masking an injury and making it worse, or preventing it from healing.

    I think you should definitely try to see a sports medicine orthopedist. A family doc’s suggestion if you say “it hurts when my knee moves like this” will usually be “then don’t move like that”. A sports medicine doc may see a lot more of your type of injury and be able to offer some other treatments that will let you get back in business faster.

    #76839
    rfc
    Member

    Re: Twisted my Knee and Kicked in the face

    Oh, sorry. I didn’t answer your question about training…

    I was completely out of Krav for the first 2 weeks. After that, for another 2-3 weeks, I just did very light work (once or twice a week), avoiding everything that stressed the knee or might put it at risk. At the end of that time, I learned the stretching and exercise techniques and over the course of a couple more months, things naturally returned to normal -at which time, I resumed moderate/normal Krav workouts.

    BTW: Some may disagree with my philosophy but for me and my bodily abilities, I no longer attack each Krav session with 100% intensity. I learned this about mid-way in level 2 after a couple injuries. If I happen to have a good partner on any given day, once in a while, I’ll go 100% on a few sets of moves to test the technique but for the most part, I keep it at 60-70%. For me, I believe the odds/probability will catch up to you if you go 100% all the time -and you will eventually get a 100% nasty injury.

    I save my 100% output for my level tests and for (what I hope never happens) a real street encounter.

    FYI: I’m a level 3 and weigh-in at 165. A physically fit friend of mine (weighing about 195) wanted to go 1-on-1 with me in semi-serious fashion, just for grins. At the gym he works at, we used the floor pads and went at it. -And I cleaned his clock three for three, each in about 10-20 seconds using only L1 techniques.

    I believe, it’s not how hard you train… it’s how hard you try to train properly.

    #76869
    farhan
    Member

    Re: Twisted my Knee and Kicked in the face

    No, I agree with you. You can’t keep putting that much toll on your body on a regular basis. Its like a car, you can’t rev it up and peel out every time you drive.

    I have been off of it for a good 6 weeks and then started back slowly. I even wear a brace when I am in KM and ice it after the workouts. But I have been a little laxed on strengthening exercises.

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