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Re: Want to see how quickly a knife can kill you?
quote BradM:Have to agree with Dirty_Harry on that. Looks like the stab went directly to the victom’s heart. I think one of the main aspects of self defense was violated, that being distance. Create and maintain distance.The victim initiated the contact both guys are guilty here. In this thread there are a couple different discussions going on about this.
When I watched that video it looked to me like the attacker had the knife out before he had any contact with the victim. Its also a train — he knew exactly where that train was going and he knew what he was wearing.
Both parties screwed up. Tactically if the “victim” had simply not approached the guy it looks like he might still be alive today….
Re: Want to see how quickly a knife can kill you?
I can’t watch the video at work, but I can comment on the elusive lethality of edged weapons from my decade-plus of EMS work. It’s like selling a house. It’s all about location, location, location. I’ve seen multiple stab-wound patients (20-30 separate punctures) get stitched up and walk out of the ER in a few hours. I’ve seen a single stab to the liver bleed out in under a minute. The scarry thing is that it takes no skill at all to deliver a fatal blow.
Re: Want to see how quickly a knife can kill you?
Very interesting,
So on the surface the attack appears random. However as the facts emerge you can see that this is not the case at all. As I watched the first video it becomes clear that the victim and attacker are talking to each other at various times prior to the stabbing. A few of the victims friends seem to look at the attackers hands and notice the knife but they do not respond appropriately.
I think that the stabbing victim was too busy running his mouth to recognize the attacker’s intention. When I worked in Loss Prevention for years we always were taught to watch a person’s hands. This is true for self defense as well. Any one who presents a threat has to use their hands first. Identify that threat. Position yourself. Understand that the hands are the begining of most attacks. I am not sure that this would have mattered given the circumstances. However this would help in most cases
Re: Want to see how quickly a knife can kill you?
Hi everyone here…
Very interesting footage.
What a horrible experience for those involved & obviously for those injured/killed – but the rest of us can learn from it.
Another example of how knife attacks tend to happen out of thin air at lightning speed – I sure doubt the victim expected that guy to be a military-trained killer holding an Applegate-style combat knife at the ready.
I really don’t see how he had any chance other than to just not be there in the first place..
You can see the KM wisdom in keeping your hands up (passive stance) in any encounter, even a verbal exchange – still I don’t think anyone, even KM-trained, would have had much of a chance in this particular scenario..
Re: Want to see how quickly a knife can kill you?
Beside all the facts, and who was or wasn¥t right.
The big mistake of that violent encounter was done by the victim.
He had made some provocative moves, pulling the t-shirt of the armed guy, problably insulted him, knowing that was protected by his friends, looking for trouble.
He forgot that with just one hit,you can be out, for life.
In the end we was the victim, but on the beggining he was the bullie, the trouble-maker.Hope you understand my point of view.
Re: Want to see how quickly a knife can kill you?
quote oasktf:Beside all the facts, and who was or wasn¥t right.
The big mistake of that violent encounter was done by the victim.
He had made some provocative moves, pulling the t-shirt of the armed guy, problably insulted him, knowing that was protected by his friends, looking for trouble.
He forgot that with just one hit,you can be out, for life.
In the end we was the victim, but on the beggining he was the bullie, the trouble-maker.Hope you understand my point of view.
The road to disaster was set in motion long before the train encounter if you imagine a scenario as the poster from Spain described which is a common one in Europe: Neo-Nazi’s on the move / headed for a march or demonstration to broadcast their views then add to the mix ‘Antifa’ members who are interested in a violent confrontation with these other individuals.
If one were going to one of these ‘manifestations’ where you could reasonably expect at the least some tension, if not actual physical skirmishing – why would you be carrying a huge combat knife?
Perhaps the guy with the knife was already planning in his mind to stab whoever messed with him that day.
Seeing the video footage it certainly appears like he was mentally prepared & tactically ready to take that step, before any members of the other group even set foot on the train.
The victim couldn’t have possibly anticipated this particular guy was going to plunge a knife into his chest with no warning during their exchange of words.
Another response might have been for the guy who felt under threat to just walk out those open doors and not kill anyone – I guess that’s why he faces (by European standards) a huge prison sentence.
Re: Want to see how quickly a knife can kill you?
Here’s a collection of real life knife attack videos gleaned from the ‘net – note that some footage is very disturbing (especially the last one)
It is interesting to note that in the majority of situations the attack comes out of thin air & typically consists of multiple stabbing motions.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/266722/brutal_knife_attack/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suNKWwPnkJ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEjKU0p9JZw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qlb6qGyblR8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9q1IElo8v4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FOUn5qI6Ic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4KROpdUkrM
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=778010752e
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5bfb9ec743
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=17f_1173654313
Re: Want to see how quickly a knife can kill you?
The victim in the Madrid metro attack was Carlos Javier Palomino – just 16 years old (!).
Re: Want to see how quickly a knife can kill you?
Seeing as this poor lad who was killed was a member of a group which seeks to defend & fight against Neo-Nazis – I thought it was worth noting that , according to the available history, the founder of KM Imi Lichtenfeld, was involved with groups defending his community against the threat from fascist/Nazi gangs in the 1930’s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krav_Maga
Krav Maga is an eclectic hand-to-hand combat system developed in Israel.[1] It was derived from street-fighting skills developed by Imi Lichtenfeld, making use of his training as a boxer and wrestler, as a means of defending the Jewish quarter during a period of anti-Semitic activity in Bratislava in the mid- to late 1930s. In the late 1940’s, following his emigration to Israel, he began to provide hand-to-hand combat training to what was to become the IDF, developing the techniques that became known as Krav Maga. It has since been refined for both civilian and military applications. Unlike most martial arts, Krav Maga is essentially a tactical defense skill. Its philosophy emphasizes threat neutralization, simultaneous defensive and offensive maneuvers, and aggressive endurance in a ‘him-or-me’ context. Krav Maga is still used by the Israel Defense Forces and several closely related variations have been developed and adopted by law enforcement, Mossad, FBI, United States special operations forces, Irish and British Special Forces. There are several organisations teaching variations of Krav Maga internationally
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imi_Lichtenfeld
Development of Krav Maga
In the late 1930s, anti-Semitic riots threatened the Jewish population of Bratislava. Together with other Jewish boxers and wrestlers, Lichtenfeld helped to defend his Jewish neighborhood against fascist gangs.[2] He quickly realised that sport has little in common with real combat and began developing a system of techniques for practical self-defense in life threatening situations.
Re: Want to see how quickly a knife can kill you?
He was intending to kill somebody anyway, because he had the knife drawn way before the other poor guy commented about his sweatshirt. He was a criminal just looking for an excuse.
Something of notice, when I was In Spain (In Barcelona) I noticed many people commenting against people of both extreme right and extreme left ideologies right there on their faces.
uh…? Can we say stupid thing to do? I don’t know, I think that if you see somebody sporting some legend or symbol from an extreme ideology, the most sensible thing is to just play it safe and keep your opinion to yourself.
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