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and what kepy you coming back after the first class?
techniques?
drills?
self defense?
fighting?
fitness?
all of the above?
more or less of which?Re: what do you like in a KM class??
All of the above.. with the addition of a busted lip… an awkward gait from muscle soreness in my legs that was so bad that I could barely walk for a few days! Yeah, that’s what did it for me! thumbsup
Re: what do you like in a KM class??
Hypnotic! YES! HA! Perfect Krav class. Oh, and don’t forget the open door for tossing your cookies halfway through the routine.
Re: what do you like in a KM class??
The drills that combine most of them together.
Like someone holding you back at the waist, while you try to strike a pad, mixed with chokers attacking you throughout intervals of the drill.
Re: what do you like in a KM class??
Mostly the knowledge that no matter how tired I am, I am getting stronger after every class
Re: what do you like in a KM class??
quote Kevin Mack:and what kepy you coming back after the first class?
techniques?
drills?
self defense?
fighting?
fitness?
all of the above?
more or less of which?All of these, plus watching the 20-30 somethings falling by the wayside as I cruise on. Ah, yeah, age and treachery will overcome youth and skill every time.
Re: what do you like in a KM class??
I like the SD, technique and drills, also the fighting classes. I love going down to the garage, or working in a realistic environment. Also doing something new and creative, such as the stick and knife fighting we’ve been doing lately. Drills with different attackers coming at you with a variety of weapons. Multiple attackers with weapons. Even exotic stuff, such as the grenade defense and sentry removal.
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GiantkillerRe: what do you like in a KM class??
I feel that a lot of what is missing from the classes I take is:
– DISCLAIMER: I did see a some of the following in some classes, but it’s not practiced enough, IMO. And, I do like my gym. This is just what I would like the my gym to be like in an ideal situation…
REALISM
1. More free-style training – meaning, you study some techniques in class, and then, towards the end you get to apply them by combining what you studied with your own “style”: you and your partner/s spar it off, even if lightly.
2. More sparring – even for warm up. There’s too much shadowboxing! Shadowboxing is good to warm up but it’s even better if you do it by light-sparring with your partner. You don’t really need headgear or gloves… you just “tag” your opponent if he or she is open. I feel shadowboxing can strengthen incorrect techniques by allowing you to practice them without being “punished” for them. This is why people who take fight classes are so much better and realistic – they get conditioned as to what really works.
3. Personal space. I’ve seen a lot of students “stop and reposition” themselves b/c they fell/entered into an area occupied by other students during training… So what? This is realistic, the others should smile and move away… the thing is many people might get uncomfortable from the technique that got them to move into other students’ area, so they use the opportunity to excuse themselves, stop, and get out of that uncomfortable situation!!! On the street there is no “let’s stop for a minute coz I think we’re in their space” are you kidding me? I’m not preaching here for complete rampage across the mat. People should keep each other safe, but plz! Be realistic. (+ changing environments are good for training).TRAINING TECHNIQUES
4. Absorption – I don’t feel we work enough on absorption of blows. It is a crucial part to know how it feels to get hit/hurt and also know that it is completely okay and that you can still think clearly and react.
5. Aggression training – this can be achieved with more team play, e.g. two teams fighting each other for control of an area at the center of the mat – or, last man standing… or even “tournaments” where you kepep switching partners in some sort of cycle.
6. Ground fighting! Definitely not enough ground fighting!!! What happens in a spar is that sometimes you can take down your opponent… what’s next? you keep fighting… you either “attack” him or her by tagging light kicks to the head or whatever – or you dive in… the fight’s not over until one calls quits!
7. Separation of fighting from actual KM classes this is the BIG ONE. Why do they separate fight classes from ground fighting classes from regular krav classes? Is it a money issue? Is it more profitable to do so? Is it a legitation issue? Would the people studying KM prefer no to experience real fighting? Do they realize it’s futile to learn techniques about street defence without training in the situation? Fighting should be an integral part of regular KM classes – and if need be, these classes should be longer to accomodate that. If many people disdain from sparring, then a special “non fighting” class should be arranged for them.I hope this wasn’t too bad, altogether, I really like my gym.
P.S. When asked by a level 2 class instructor what we would like to do in class today, I said “let’s do knife or stick defence” His response was: “You are way over your head! That is like level 3 or 4!”. My response should have been: “So what?” But out of respect I apologized. Really guys? Stick and knife were taught to me in level 1 in a different gym…! They’re just really important.
Re: what do you like in a KM class??
quote Satilan:two teams fighting each other for control of an area at the center of the mat – or, last man standing… or even “tournaments” where you kepep switching partners in some sort of cycle.That sounds cool… I’m gonna’ have to ask my instructor about something like that.
quote Satilan:Definitely not enough ground fighting!!!Do you mean ground training or ground fighting? If you mean ground fighting I can see why there would be a shortage. IIRC the idea in Krav is to get off the ground so you don’t get kicked in the head by Tod (The Other Dude).
quote Satilan:Separation of fighting from actual KM classesDisagree in a HUGE way… I like them separate. I like knowing that the people who showed up for fight class showed up to get hit. On Friday I sparred with a kid that wasn’t very good at all (this is after the quick guy bloodied my nose). I never felt bad or that I had to apologize or anything. I slowed down a little to give him a chance to get in the game, but we both knew we were there to hit each other so there was no awkward “oh, I’m sorry” crap.
Re: what do you like in a KM class??
quote DirtyHippieUte:Do you mean ground training or ground fighting? If you mean ground fighting I can see why there would be a shortage. IIRC the idea in Krav is to get off the ground so you don’t get kicked in the head by Tod (The Other Dude).Krav Maga includes many takedowns from judo and ground fighting techniques adopted mainly from Brazilian Jiu Jitsu – you have got to train in ground fighting so that you can have an understanding of it enough to help you get up and out – I agree with you. But I think that knowledge of ground fighting can improve your street chances a lot. Just look at any “street fight” on Youtube, many of them end up on the floor.
quote DirtyHippieUte:Disagree in a HUGE way… I like them separate. I like knowing that the people who showed up for fight class showed up to get hit. On Friday I sparred with a kid that wasn’t very good at all (this is after the quick guy bloodied my nose). I never felt bad or that I had to apologize or anything. I slowed down a little to give him a chance to get in the game, but we both knew we were there to hit each other so there was no awkward “oh, I’m sorry” crap.I guess this is just a cultural diffrence issue. I grew up with KM being a place where you train technique and then fight. Yet again, there were two types of fighting: all out, full force fighting (with protective gear) and sparring (cups and mouth pieces only). In the latter, which is what I suggest, you don’t hit your opponent hard in the face, you “Tag” him. This way you teach your partner that whatever he was doing was wrong b/c he couldn’t stop you from connecting and then he takes a step back, and you continue the spar right after. This could be supplemented by “heavy fighting” with gear – to those who want to fight like that. But anyways, I mean more light sparring. I guess I can’t get it all :abx:
Re: what do you like in a KM class??
I guess it depends on were you train. If you are in a place where you only have one or two KM classes a week and no separate fighting classes, you will have to do more sparring in the KM class. At the NTC and SO, there are separate fighting classes, so one can take those and concentrate more on KM drills and technique in regular KM class. Or add more street elements into sparring during a KM class, such as one guy suddenly pulling a knife, or knife- and stick fighting.
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GiantkillerRe: what do you like in a KM class??
quote Satilan:I guess this is just a cultural diffrence issue.I think you hit the nail on the head right there. I think enrollment in KM classes across the US would suffer if people got the idea that they were going to be “fighting” in all their classes.
There are just WAY too many Americans who want to know the form without having to implement the function.
Ok…
I should stop here or I’ll end up going on a LONG rant about the many other ways many Americans like to pretend that they’re actually much tougher than they are… Like “luxury” Sport Utility vehicles, the fascination with home improvement, and eco-tourism :soapbox:
Edited to Add:
I should point out here that I’m not attempting to express any sort of anti-American sentiment. I am a native US citizen and very proud of my country and its history. However, I have some pretty strong feelings about the way popular culture is weakening the minds and bodies of the masses.Re: what do you like in a KM class??
“I have some pretty strong feelings about the way popular culture is weakening the minds and bodies of the masses.”
DHU, I hear you, and I agree with the sentiment, but the way you worded this seems to take the onus off of individuals. Personal responsibility, or the lack thereof, is the real problem, in my opinion.
Re: what do you like in a KM class??
quote Ryan:Personal responsibility, or the lack thereof, is the real problem, in my opinion.Absolutely. In my opinion, people abandon personal responsibility ’round about the same time they stop thinking, working, and providing for themselves.
My point about Americans thinking they are tough is this: A guy goes to REI.com and buys a $500 jacket and he has allowed the marketing dept to convince him that he could climb Mt. Everest if he wanted. The same guy gets up on Saturday, puts on a pair of Carhart overalls and drives to the Home Depot so he can feel like he’s some craftsman or contractor. Later that day he goes to the gym and takes a spin class and now he’s ready for the Tour de France.
We kid ourselves into thinking that we’re accomplishing so much when all we’re really doing is getting the instant microwave-oven version of life. This is why the McDojo survives. Our hero from above wants to feel like he’s tough. So he goes to 3 classes a week, yells “hi-ya” a lot, and reads up on martial arts history on Wikipedia. Now he’s got everything he needs to tell people he’s “into martial arts.”
People aren’t willing to dig in and actually master things anymore. They don’t want to get dirty. They don’t want to be put out. They don’t care enough, don’t have the attention span, and don’t have the work ethic. So they settle and allow marketing to convince them that they’re actually getting substance.
I saw a good example of this when I was sitting on the side of a mountain outside of Salt Lake City. It was early February so the mountain was covered in snow, the route was icy, and the trail was hard to follow.
Two guys in at least $2,000 worth of gear caught up with me as I stopped to pick clumps of snow out from between my dog’s paws (they get big and make it hard for him to walk). They were commenting on the “extreme” conditions and how cool it was to be “out there” doing stuff that was “on the edge.”
They let me know what the exact altitude was and that they were sure we were on the right route because their GPS said so. They warned me about sun exposure at “high altitude” and assured me that avalanche conditions were safe because they looked them up that morning on the internet.
About two minutes into our conversation another man caught up to us. He was over 60 yrs old, dressed in about $50 worth of “old school” wool gear, using a 30 yr old pair of snow shoes, and moving at a pace that I don’t think my dog could keep up. He had no gore-tex coat, no GPS, no titanium trekking poles, and no camera to document his legendary climb.
He stopped to chat for a minute and made small talk as he took a water break. I just about laughed out loud at when I saw the faces of the two guys as they realized that their “extreme adventure” was nothing more than an easy morning stroll for an old man who does this stuff all the time.
Somehow they honestly believed their one or two Saturday mornings a month made them extreme mountaineers. This is the kind of thing that undermines the strength of America. This is why Americans are getting weaker. This is why people wouldn’t take KM classes if they thought they were actually going to have to get hit.
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