@angryangel
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I have done some boxing over the years and have found that it builds opun Krav (and vice versa). While Krav is a straight-forward no-nonsense aggressive system, boxing can help you work some of the more technical elements of using your hands. In addition the footwork (side-stepping, working angles), strategy (yes there is a lot of thinking-on-your-feet type strategy in boxing) and conditioning elements will also be of benefit.
Boxing classes are also typically pretty cheap, and on offer just about everywhere in western countries so handy if you are travelling.
My only words of warning would be in regards to the quality of instruction, some instructors like to throw people in the deep end with the more experienced boxers for practice. This is no fun. Give the gym a miss if this is the case.
Always use good headgear, 16 ounce gloves etc and ensure that any club equipment is in good order. When sparring watch peoples attitude – if they get carried away and start going ape avoid sparring with them.
Sparring should also be of varying levels of intensity and almost never 110% to the head. You want to be able to form coherent sentances in years to come so keep this in mind.
While building the power behind you punches is fun and beneficial also remember that it is important to learn to avoid getting hit, this is what I like to work on when boxing.
Further be aware that boxing, while having great hands has no clinch skills or other ranges of combat.
Hope this helps.
Living where you can get arrested for having any type of weapon for self defence my vote is definately for the gun.
I appreciate the extra responsibility, training etc but there is just so much less of a fudge factor when you have a gun in your hands.
I remember back in junior school I was walking to school, past a car yard, there was no-one around and a german shepperd was running free. It saw me, ran up and bit me on the thigh (fairly hard, it drew blood). Mind you I was still standing on the sidewalk. I punched it in the eye and it ran away. Maybe it might have gone harder if I was actually on the property, but then maybe not. I would not want to be my life on that.
A good gun, combined with good training has little chance of malfunctioning.
Hehe, next thing you know we will be having lineage wars! 😀
I have seen some of the WT spar on a couple vids that are floating around the web. They go hard. From Estonia apparently (these sparring sessions were).
From what I have picked up in some martial arts mags and the web it is kind of a chinese rbsd system! In that it is a real blend of the old and the new.
Best bet would be to give it a go, take your free lesson, ask some questions, evaluate how the train (will you be spending valuable time learning forms or katas, how does this relate to your own view?) etc?
My vote remains with krav though 🙂
As I have mentioned in another thread it is just as important to look at how you will train in the system as the sytem itself.
For example, will you be reverse punching and \”kiiiaaaaing\” up and down the floor all class, or spending lots of time learning katas, forms, bowing, or learning to pronounce foreign names for moves and counting backwards, listening intently to the sifu/ sensei’s philosphies on life?
This may be your thing, to take the time to learn a system in the context of appreciating and absorbing some of the cultural and traditional elements.
Or will you be spending this time learning realistic techniques and applying them in realistic scenerious. Is there pad work, contact, some sort of ground componant? All these things are important if you are looking at some that is quick and nasty.
I recommend bjj (the competitive element can be quite social and healthy) boxing, or muay thai. But then I am not much for the internal arts, though it is great for those that are into it. Don’t forget to take advantage of free lessons, try both approaches, ask lots of questions and get a real taste of how they train along with what they train.
Hi there.
I have a hanging heavy 5ft bag in my shed – suspended from a cross beam using a chain and a couple of caribiners (sp?).
I really like striking without the need of a focus mitt holder.
I rate them highly – because of its size and weight I also use it for various other training including:
– practicing my \”ground and pound\” from mount, side mount and side control.
– practicing transitions from north/ south to side control, to mount and reverse.
– practicing hip escapes from side control.
– picking up and throwing/ suplexing (good for functional strength too)
I have also toyed with the idea of straping a belt to it and threading a couple of \”arms\” (pvc piping) onto it to practice hip-throws and armbars, keylocks. Dunno how well it would work though.
If you had a long enough chain you could also let it sit low enough so that the bottom is on the ground and it is leaning on an angle. Pull guard on it and practice striking from the guard.
I am not sure if the water-filled ones offer this flexibility as I have not had any experience with them, though I have heard of them not being able to take full-power blows and there is a risk of leaks. Though I spose you could use sand as well? depending on the base low kicks might be more difficult too.
I have seen the heavy bag stands in the stores. They just seem less than stable to me – hence the need to bolt them down or buy plates of weights to stabilise it.
I have seen the longer, thinner thai bags but am unfamiliar with the benefits over a normal heavy bag. Can anyone out there enlighten? Is it conditioning?
I like my low thai kicks and let loose on the bag regularly, and combined with leg checking drills my shins are slowly getting conditioned, but no where near as fast as it took my forearms.
A modification that I have seen is for simulating the chin (for upper cuts, upward elbow stikes, tiger claw etc). You get a car tyre tube (deflated), remove some of the filler for the bag slide the deflated tyre down the bag until it is at the level you want. Refill the bag with the filler and then inflate the tyre. It sits very securely. Though I have not done it to my bag.
You can also get bags with the same \”donut\” buit-in but made of the same material/ filler as the bag. They were a lot more expensive though.
Hope that helps.
Just to throw another perspective into the mix.
Has anyone noticed that trained female fighters (say boxing, muay thai – and maybe mma though I have never seen a female mma fight) are far more technical that there male counterparts.
Speaking to corner men I know, they also seem to be more able to take in what is being said between rounds and act on it than males.
No doubt there is a good dash of ego causing this (the guy is thinking, hey my mates are here to watch me, I gotta bash this guy), but could it be more.
Could it be that because of the strength differential women are less likely to try and muscle their opponent.
Could it be deeper than that. I remember reading that some research suggests that women would make \”better\” snipers than men because they do not get as \”involved\” (lower heart rate, even breathing, less sweaty).
I remember many years ago helping my karate instructor teach self-defence to women (I was the \”punching bag\”). While they seemed to pick up on the technical elements quite quickly (they had no pre-disposition as to what a punch or kick should look like) it was really difficult to get them to strike with any sort of aggression or determinaton. Very similar to the observations made above.
Tis interesting stuff.
I had to vote awesome – but with the disclaimer that only in the context of a valuable training aid. You get to see the ugly, dirty nature of a street fight, some of the technical elements that may, may not, or should be there and get a feel for how your training might help you react in similar circumstances.
This is a good topic!
Le Revancha – do know of any other LEO studies such as these that deal with defensive tactics? Most interesting.
When doing break-falls I always bring my arm(s) out to 45 degrees (side and back). This minimises the chances of slapping my arm over a curb or something equally unappealing. At the same time you get the benefits of the slap.
It would be interesting to know what the study considered a \”slap\”, the full arms extended at 90 degrees or the more subtle (and safer) 45 degrees.
Hi Jusjay. Everything above sounds like good advice. I would also suggest that in terms of looking for a \”substitute\” (a bad term I know) you might want to consider how people train rather than what they train.
Would you spend a large chunk of time on katas or forms? Practicing unrealistic defences against attacks? Do they teach unrealistic attacks such as hard to hit pressure points or high kicks to the head. Are you hitting pads, bags and mitts rather than air? is there contact? Sparring? do people come out of the class sweaty, with a bruise or two not being uncommon? Do they promote determination, aggression rather than flowery chi techniques? Is there some form of groundwork? What is the general fitness level of class members?
I cannot help but think a boxing/ thai boxing or mma class supplemented with training km material from books, videos and seminars might be the best way to go until you can find a better solution.
Of couse it does also depend on your goals. The above is based on the assumption you want to learn self-defence quickly and effectively and cultural, social, traditional considerations are not relevant.
Hi Guerriere, sorry to hear about your situation.
If your really stuck there and it is not realistic to move, here are some other things you may want to think about.
Have a think about a realistic threat assessment. I think the likely hood of a bullet through the window would be low, say compared to some other threats.
The security of your apartment. A DIY alarm can be picked up pretty cheap. It is movable too so you can take it with you when you leave. It consists of a keypad, movement sensor and up to two very loud alarms. If any wires are cut the alarm goes off. Good idea if you can place it somewhere between any main entrances your apartment has (front door, balcony) and your bedroom (depending on the layout). In Aust we can get them from Dick Smith, but Tandys or something similar should have them over there.
Having a practiced plan if someone tries to break into your apartment – is there a lockable room you can retreat to a set up a defensive \”line in the sand\” and contact police?
How far away are the police typically? How long would you have to \”hold the fort\”? All things to consider.
Have you thought about where furniture is placed? In the dark it can help you because you know it is there, and can get in the way of anyone who is unfamiliar with the layout.
Is there a deadbolt/ deadlock? Keep a spare set of keys closeby so you can get out if need be. Attached to a flashlight would help to, a microlight to work the key and lock in the dark.
A friend of mine was in a situation where some punks who had a set of keys to a apartment progressively went through the entire block and cleaned out those the keys opened. Unfortunately developers can take short cuts that result in things like this happening.
Are there any good neighbours you could depend on if in trouble? Others who walk the same path as you about the same time? There is greater safety in numbers.
Are there well-lighted paths you can use – take note of these – and be wary if for some reason these lights are not on one night on your way home. Look for warning signs. If something does not feel right, it probably isnt.
Testing your sprinting time is a good idea but be careful not to gas yourself. You might need the energy.
Walk tall, strong, bad guys look for easy prey. Be smart, be strong, do not make yourself a target.
Personal alarms are an option, but get a sturdy one. Some are notoriously easy to break by stomping on them. And depending on your environment it may just annoy any attacker and cause everyone to close their blinds because they \”do not want to get involved\”.
Perhaps pepper-spray might be a more pro-active solution.
Sorry this all comes across as doom-and-gloom, just remember that the liklihood of being attacked is low, take the the right precautions, identify the risks, act to minimise these risks and even in the unlikely event something does happen you have helped stack the odds in your favour.
Just one question. Why the negative view on weapons? In Australia our right to self-preservation has been effectively removed because we are forbidden to carry even non-lethal weapons while at the same time banks can hire multiple armed guards to protect their money. It is actually illegal to carry any item with the intent of using it for self defence. Women have been arrested and charged for admitting the hairspray they carry in the bag is there for self-defence. Meanwhile the bad-guys import cheap Norinco .45’s from China by the shipping container load.
As Mordechai said, you guys have the right to a fair fight over there, why not use it!
Hope this is all helpful, sorry about the long post. But I tend to do that.
I had a think about this and agree with the above about it being hard to get your opponents back while standing (though far from impossible), especially in a mma fight. I was also thinking that if you did get your opponents back would you not be better off taking him down and consolidating a position of dominance than a standing RNC (in a mma fight).
If you are standing you would probably keep your feet on the ground and not try and get your hooks in (is it still a RNC technically speaking then?). This could leave you open to getting slammed (see Bas Rutten’s stuff on an example of how). Same deal if you jumped up and put your hooks in. The guy could throw himself backward and you end up getting slammed (with his body weight on top of yours).
Sounds riskier than a takedown (suplex) that lands you in a dominant position and takes the wind out of the other guy.
Hey Garddawg, no probs you using it. But credit due, where credits due. I got this idea from the \”crutchmaster conditioning tips\” forum at groundnpound.org. He has a couple of other pearlers up there too.
Worth a look.
Those workouts they look kick-a$$. I like the mental element of the Rutman mile.
The RDM has given me a couple of ideas too.
Will definately check out Mikes website. Always on the lookout for interesting, challenging ways to push myself.
Thanks.
Good to see the forums back up!
And the site looks damn funky. Good job!
Shame about the email, that account was damn near spam proof, but oh well. Makes a lot of sense as to why it cannot be offered any more.
Thought I would keep my old name to avoid any confusion!
Oh yeah, I can play with smilies too: 🙄 😈
Hi there Johnny_Fred, for awhile there I too spent a lot of time surfing the net looking at different approaches to training, evaluating different opinions etc, but then I found myself suffering paralysis through over-analysis. So the only advice I can give (certainly not as qualified as Garddawg) is to choose an approach that makes sense to you and meets your goals and then go out and do it (Garddawg’s suggest workout looks like a good un).
Start small and built up from there. Just aim to do something every (second) day (with a rest day when you need it) – whether it be a boxing class at the local youth club or Garddawg’s suggeted workout. Go on, no excuses now. As the cliche says \”just do it\”.
Hi there garddawg, thanks for answering all these questions on-line.
I have one to add, hope you do not mind. As outlined above my goal is to do something everyday (I will take up to two days a week rest though, depending on how I feel) sometimes this is krav, boxing, bjj or kickboxing. Othertimes I will do a hill run (though I tend to jog more than run, bad habit I know), do a Body-weight exercise circuit, throw the weights around (compound exercises only) or the following routine.
15 X hindu pushups (gunna try those seal push-ups next time) 😯
15 X crunches (or similar)
15 X rock-climbers
15 X squats
15 X squat-jumps5 mins skipping or running.
(the sets of 15 as outlined above)
5 mins shadow-boxing
(the sets of 15 as outlined above)
5 mins on the heavy-bag
I will go through this 2 to 4 times.
It is my fav at the moment and find it a real killer and feel good after doing it. But would it be improved by replacing the sets of 15 exercises with some WOD type exercises (modified) or the type of clubbell, or \”scrapper\” (bag of cement) type exercises! With the idea that it would be combine a cardio and weights type workout. I think doing so might increase the weights side of the equation. Do you think such changes would be worthwhile?
My goals are improve \”fighting\” fitness and hopefully get a bit leaner in the process.
One more question what to do you think of doing the shuttle-run (or beep test) as a simple, no-brainer max-cardio workout? I saw it suggeted on-line and was thinking it could be worth a go when I want something easy to set up, bust a gut and then move onto other things that need doing?
Thanks in advance.
