Episode 17: A Reservation-to-Licensee Journey with Tonna Thomas
Joel Ellenbecker
Tonna, thanks so much for making time to chat today. I am really excited about this conversation.
Tonna Thomas
Thank you, Joel. I am too. It's super exciting to be here.
It's such an honor.
Joel Ellenbecker
Yeah, we were just kind of chatting before, but the reason I was excited about the conversation is that you are the very first person to go through our reservation program, and then also finding out you're the first licensed Krav Maga worldwide school in the state of Wyoming. I think that's so awesome.
Tonna Thomas
It is awesome, and I didn't even know about the first one to go through the reservation program. Even the whole time I was going through it, no one had said anything until just a couple weeks ago, so I was pretty excited for that.
Joel Ellenbecker
Yeah, it's so cool. Yeah, when we started our Krav Maga worldwide evolution, we looked at the whole process from beginning to end, and the beginning side of things, it was like, hey, you want to become a licensee, you want to be able to offer Krav Maga worldwide curriculum in your area? Well, then come to phase, and if you pass, cool, you get to join the club.
We just felt like there's more support that can be offered on that front end during it and after. I'm just excited to kind of walk through your journey from the beginning. How did you get connected with Krav Maga in general or Krav Maga worldwide?
Tonna Thomas
Initially, I got connected with Krav Maga actually worldwide through the tactical side due to my job, so I went and did the self-defense training that we had to do through my employment, and that's how I was first introduced to Krav Maga period. Needless to say, same experience as most people have, I just fell in love with it. It wasn't too long after that, I went ahead and went and had the certification for the law enforcement training side of it, and I did that for about a year and a half.
Eventually, I was kind of thinking, well, what if I could do this all the time? What if I could bring this to Sheridan because I'm here in Sheridan that I didn't have anybody to train with. We didn't have anyone and no one offered it, so I thought how cool would it be to have it here and offer it to the people here in the community and also give me an opportunity to train more often.
That's how I started moving in this direction.
Joel Ellenbecker
So cool. I think that number one, wow, the world's aligned destiny or whatever you believe is like not every law enforcement or tactical department, agency, whatever in the country offers Krav Maga. So it's lucky that you just fell into that.
So it was required? Basically, you're doing your job and they're like, hey, we need you to go do this course.
Tonna Thomas
Exactly. Yeah, it was a requirement. I was actually employed because of COVID and everything else.
I was employed for quite a while before I had the opportunity to go and do the training. I'll just go ahead if you want me to step back to the beginning. But whenever I did go, we went for a week long training, well, five days and it was required.
And in that time, I was kind of just going through some personal things that were kind of some hard times in my own personal life. And I don't know, something just clicked for me during that week. And I had a spark kind of come back during that time of training and it just opened up, you know, a side of me that I kind of felt like I had lost maybe, you know, in the shuffle of life and everything else.
And it was like you said, I don't know if the stars align or you know, fate, destiny, whatever it is, but something was meant to be because it was just life altering for me. It's super exciting.
Joel Ellenbecker
But yeah, yeah, we've been working on, you know, like our purpose and our values and just things but kind of behind the scenes and something that's starting to emerge is this idea of training for life. So it's like, yes, obviously, what we do is to save lives and for people to be able to protect themselves. But I just think it's an extra layer even deeper of like, you were going through a rough time and like Krav Maga empowered you, it emboldened you, it gave you, you know, this like, reignition, which is just such a cool thing to hear.
And, and honestly, it's common amongst the people who decide to kind of pick up the torch and carry things forward. It's impacted their life so profoundly that they just want to share that with other people.
Tonna Thomas
Yeah, and that's something I've heard, you know, in the instructor training, it seems to kind of be a common theme is, you know, different aspects of life, but people are going through something and it does, it just kind of grabs them where they're at. And, you know, gives them that sense of empowerment and helps them get through. And it's just, it's been super neat, because like you said, it's, it's not just training to survive or training for today, you know, it's training for life.
And that's something I really tried to emphasize in, in my school is, you know, this is life, this is your life, you know, it's and really try to emphasize how life altering it has been for me. Because I think it's definitely not just self-defense, very much so is, but it's that mentally and emotionally, that change happens, you know, even spiritually, I guess.
Joel Ellenbecker
Yeah. Yeah. And you mentioned something a little bit ago where you're like, yeah, I'm in, I'm in Wyoming, and there's no Krav Maga near me.
So like, you know, there's areas like somehow I lucked out in Wisconsin, we had some Krav Maga, and I was able to mentor under somebody and learn from him. And then, you know, I went out and did instructor certifications. But a big reason why we created this reservation program is for people like you, like we have people reach out to us from India, or for from other areas of the world, or, you know, different states, and they're like, hey, we want to get involved.
And some of them come with a martial arts background and experience, but some of them don't, and some of them don't have Krav Maga that they can train with nearby. So it just so happened to be that you were like the perfect example of a person like you had some exposure to Krav Maga through the force training division. But you were also kind of alone and on an island.
So at what point did you decide like, oh, I want to figure out how to get my own school? You said it was like, after you had done done Krav Maga for a little while, or?
Tonna Thomas
Yeah, yeah, you know, I had been training there on the tactical side in law enforcement. And, you know, just like I said, not only, you know, how nice would it be to have a school in Sheridan and have people to train with, but I'm just a desire to see if, like you said, if we could save one life, if it can help one person, you know, you know, I think the majority of people who get to this point have gone through things in life that no one should ever have to go through. And I've worked with plenty of people in my line of work that have as well.
And that was a desire I had to. And so that was kind of, it just kind of kept driving me forward. And, you know, about a year and a half into it, I thought, well, almost two years into it, I thought, well, I wonder if that's even possible, you know.
And so I kind of started digging online and looking up, I knew better than to just go look up Krav Maga anywhere. And so I really was looking into Krav Maga worldwide because I wanted that, the real training, you know. And so, you know, I looked into that and I found James Newman's number.
And he's the one who, I'll never forget what he said, like I set up a meeting with him and I said, you know, I just wanted to see if this even is a possibility. I don't have martial arts background. I've been doing this on the law enforcement side.
I would love to just be able to train other people. And he asked me, he said, what do you want to see? What's your vision?
And I said, well, I don't want to, you know, I want to be realistic. I don't want to think too far out there. And he said, what do you really want to see?
Don't be too realistic. Like, what do you want? And I was like, I want a school.
I want to open up a school. He said, all right, this is what you need to do. And that's when he introduced me to the reservation program, which if it wasn't for that program, I wouldn't have made it.
I know I wouldn't have because I didn't, I wouldn't have had the support and the training and things that was offered through that. So it's such a amazing program. And I mean, definitely took the right or steps in that and providing that for people.
So I, yeah.
Joel Ellenbecker
Yeah, we, and I think that's kind of, you know, along in this story and the journey in your journey where we got to meet, right. So you talk to James, and essentially, he said, suspend your disbelief, like, you know, anything is possible, like, what do you actually want to create, which is so powerful. And so then you choose, I want to have a school.
And then what's the next thing? Is that is that when you and I got on a call?
Tonna Thomas
Yep, yep. The next thing was he said, okay, well, I'm gonna set you up with Joel. And at that time, sorry, Joel, I didn't know who you were.
But yeah, and then you and I connected and had our conversations. And I think at that point, when I met with you, it was like, oh, wow, this can really happen. You know, I can start making these steps.
Yeah, yeah.
Joel Ellenbecker
Yeah. And, and it was, it was a brand new for us. Like I said, you're one of the first, you're the first person to graduate, but you're also one of the first person, first people to enroll and like to join and do it.
And so when you said yes to James, and we got on a call, essentially, what we do on our end is we plant a flag, like on our map. And we just tell people, hey, it's basically like coming soon, there's going to be a problem worldwide school near you. And it, you know, then, you know, if you're talking to anybody in your area, or excitement starting to build, it's like they can see that it's coming.
Right? You said Sheridan is the town you're in, right?
Tonna Thomas
Yes. Yeah. Sheridan, Wyoming.
Joel Ellenbecker
Nice. And then go ahead.
Tonna Thomas
Go ahead. I was gonna say that was the other really neat thing about it, too, with that reservation program, when you, you know, committed to that. It was like, I was making a commitment to you guys, you guys were making a commitment to me as well.
If I follow through on my part, you know, that this area was reserved from the school.
Joel Ellenbecker
Yeah.
Tonna Thomas
Oh, and I thought that was just, you know, really neat to see that you guys were putting your faith in me to push through and do my part and saying, Hey, we'll hold this area for you. So another cool aspect of it.
Joel Ellenbecker
Yeah, I remember, you know, us getting on the call and like starting to get to know each other, because that's generally the first step is like, Hey, who are you? Where are you at? What are your goals?
Like, how much experience do you have? And I think we just we just had a conversation kind of getting to know each other a little bit, right?
Tonna Thomas
Yeah, yeah, we did. And I was pretty nervous to you. Well, Joel, I don't have a lot of experience.
I was like, I didn't want to be turned away. You know? Yeah, that wasn't what happened.
So yeah.
Joel Ellenbecker
Yeah, that was great. And then so we're constantly refining the program, and we're adding to it. But at that stage, it was like, Alright, well, let's like, let's get on some sort of regular training schedule together, where it's like, we can get eyes on you virtually.
And we can be like the coach in your corner, directing your path and where you're going. So that kind of brings us to our first, our first like actual physical training via via Google Meet or online, right?
Tonna Thomas
Right? Yeah. And you were the one I met with.
Joel Ellenbecker
Who's your training partner? This is the best.
Tonna Thomas
My son David. Yes. So at the time he was what?
17? He just turned 17. Or?
Yeah, he may not even been 17 yet. So yeah, I said, buddy, you're it. And hold them right in.
Joel Ellenbecker
When I think that's the cool part, too, because if I'm remembering correctly, in one of our first calls, you're like, I don't really like have a training partner, like there could, you know, maybe this guy or something like that. And I was like, but you know, bottom line, I was like, Alright, well, this is your first roadblock, like, figure it out, like, go find a way, you know, a lot of people have this mentality of like, kind of like you were saying before, like, Oh, what's realistic? Or even just like, I don't know if I can do that.
And I usually try to flip that on his head and be like, Well, how can I like, how can I find find a training partner? And it just so happens, you know, you house and feed one and you had one right in your house.
Tonna Thomas
And I'll be honest with you to Joel that that changed his life. He faithfully assist me in every training I do at this point. And he is just digging in.
And he's talking about eventually one day going to phase himself after he gets some training in and it got a hold of him too. So that was just so neat to see. You know, what I my need for a partner turning into what could be just another life changing event for my son, you know?
Joel Ellenbecker
Yeah.
Tonna Thomas
So neat.
Joel Ellenbecker
Yeah. And so we we walked through the level one curriculum, which I mean, you had seen through the law enforcement training, how many how many force training series had you been through before you and I started working together?
Tonna Thomas
I had only been well, I had trained in many of them. I don't even know how many. I had been licensed for I want to say maybe a year, little year and a half.
And gone through a couple trainings myself. So, you know, I'm what, two or three trainings myself, maybe. And then and then I also assisted the academy in training the law enforcement.
So I had, you know, some background in that, but then also I was surprised by some things as well. Differences. So we got the roadblock.
Joel Ellenbecker
Yeah, we got the honor of so that we have a we have another course that's called Basic Civilian Law Enforcement, and then we have an advanced civilian law enforcement. And the reason those were created was to help civilians like myself take all of our Krama God knowledge that we have, and then like, turn it into supporting law enforcement. And so here in Wisconsin, I went through it back in like 2018.
And then a couple of my instructors went through these last several years. And we just started training law enforcement officers for free. And then we told them, like, look, if you guys like this stuff, if it's valuable to you, and we get enough interest, we'll bring out Krama God Worldwide's force training division, we can get you all certified as instructors that teach in your department.
So yeah, so we we did that we did one series last year, and then we have another series coming up this year. But the reason that I say all that is I had never seen a force training division course until they came to Wisconsin. And I was able to drop in and support and help out a little bit.
And honestly, what I was blown away by is how how little time there is to stand on each thing, because there's so much stuff. Simultaneously, how effective people still get in that short amount of time. And that's I mean, that's the beauty of Krama God in general, right?
It's like, we write, you know, john will tell me almost every week, john paschal, our chief instructor for the force training division, he'll tell me every week of stories that he's getting back from the field of people using Krama God to save their life or to save someone else's life. And then I think back, and I'm like, wow. And a lot of those people didn't have much training, and they were still able to do it.
Tonna Thomas
Yeah. And like you said, that's the beauty of Krama God. And I, you know, it's so effective.
And it's so easy to learn, because it's, it's our natural instinct, obviously. And it's so easy to retain because of that. And there's, like I said, so much that's compacted into that week of training.
But I've been surprised every time at how much does stick, you know, it's pretty, it's amazing. It's just such a neat. Just the way it's put together.
It's just it's amazing. That's all. Right.
Joel Ellenbecker
And you know, the this is something that's taken me a little time to just like understand, but it's like the context of, you know, military law enforcement officers don't get a ton of time to train. So it has to be as concise and effective as possible is really great, and effective, and it works. And then it's like, when you started to work with me, what was your experience like of like, kind of the difference and what we were looking for, for the civilian side of things?
Tonna Thomas
My experience was, gosh, I sure wish we could do some knife defenses or groundwork right now, because I can do that. When it comes to the basic little footwork and things like that, I'm in trouble, you know, because I'm on that. So it was just, you know, with the with working with you and Kelly, it was those, the fundamental basics, you know, that I was missing.
Joel Ellenbecker
Yeah.
Tonna Thomas
And that's where my struggle was, is I didn't have those that foundation in the basics to go off of and build off of, and I had plunged in, but I had plunged in deeper. And so yes, some of that stuff is effective and everything else, but I was missing a pretty good chunk that I wasn't aware of. Well, yeah.
Joel Ellenbecker
And thanks for saying that. And here's the thing. It's like what you've learned would likely be effective and you could defend yourself.
Right. And the context shift is that you're now going to be teaching civilians. And, you know, at a base level, like most of the people you were training with and training before, they've gone through other tactical type trainings and they may have a mind for that sort of thing.
Right. Right. And now I don't know if you've experienced it yet, but you will experience, you're going to have people of all walks of life, walk onto your mat, people who have never thrown a punch or even thought about violence in their entire life, or, you know, the the people who've been abused or assaulted, and they're just super afraid.
And like, it just requires a deeper level of understanding of those fundamentals. So you can meet them where they're at.
Tonna Thomas
Exactly. And that is exactly what I've seen so far. And I've only had my school open for seven weeks and I've already, I've had 13 students at this point and all of them are brand new.
And I have one lady that literally told me she's never thrown a punch. And, you know, and so, like you said, it's we have to come back and meet them where they're at with no other training and no idea of how, you know, how to, you know, move their feet or how anything. And that victim mentality is there a lot to that.
I think it's in the way because, like you said, people are afraid. People have gone through things and even people who haven't gone through things that are maybe afraid to go through things. It's a lot of problem.
I know, too, is just that working in that mental that shift from I don't know if it's victim mentality or the I'm not capable or, you know, whatever the thought processes might be to, you know, I'm going to survive this. I got this like I'm going to fight no matter what. And it's been really amazing me to see the people that come in that you have to build that in them.
They don't have that right, you know, and that's a big part of it, too.
Joel Ellenbecker
Right. Yeah. And I think that's the, you know, the testament to like the law enforcement training is most, if not all of the people that are in those training is have that warrior or sheepdog type mentality already versus on the civilian side of things like there's a lot of like uncertainty and disbelief.
So the more technical that you can go and the more information and the better you can explain it. I think it builds more trust and it starts to build confidence in them so that they can eventually get get to that.
Tonna Thomas
Yeah. And just like you said, building that confidence that that's been just key, I think.
Joel Ellenbecker
Well, a big, big acknowledgement for you, Tonna, too, is that you were able to tap into emptying your cup, right? Because like it would have been very easy for you to be like, look, I've been doing this for a couple of years already. I've done a bunch of courses.
I'm already certified on law enforcement side. Like I know what I'm talking about. Like, I don't I don't need you to tell me like, like, to be frank, we have people like that from different areas where they come to this and they're like, yeah, I want to I want to be a worldwide school, but I already kind of know everything.
I just need you to like, you know, put the stamp on the certificate. And as you experience, it's like if you're willing to empty your cup, like there's so much deeper. We can all go like there's so much more that I can learn.
Tonna Thomas
Yeah. I mean, the learning never stops, you know, if you don't allow it to. But if I had come in with that mentality, I wouldn't have made it.
And I mean, bottom line, I wouldn't have made it. It was. I remember and I know you remember this, Joel, but because I went to phase a twice.
Yeah, because I had that mentality of, oh, I've been, you know, training on the law enforcement side. I can do this, that and the other. I'll be all right.
You know, phase is going to be the basics, whatever. And I got there and I thought, oh, I'm in trouble. You know, I am in trouble.
That's like my footwork is atrocious. And I just remember thinking at that point it could it would have been easy to say, OK, I'm done. I give up.
Joel Ellenbecker
Yeah.
Tonna Thomas
You know, and I mean, but it's, you know, go back to what James asked me, like, what do you want? You know how much I mean with anything with prover anything? It's how much are you willing to put into it?
You know, it's that learning process. I had a lot to learn. And, you know, I remember calling you saying, hey, I need help.
You know, I I need more training. I need to find a way to come train. I need something, you know, right through this because I'm coming back and I have to pass it next time.
Joel Ellenbecker
So, yeah, well, thank you for bringing that up. And, you know, the humility there of like so we had worked together online for a while and I think we even had tapped Kelly and Kelly Campbell, who is our head of instructor development. And we were both working with you.
And it got to a point where I think I was just very honest with you. And I said, look, like, I don't think you're ready to pass this course. And I think what you need in your training is to go to this course because, you know, as wonderful as your son was to help out, you know, he's a teenager, younger, smaller, like you needed to feel and experience the the physical side of things with bigger, stronger like men and other people and like be in the environment.
Right. Right. And so you went to phase a that first time to get that experience.
Like I think that was almost like just like if we could go back, it's like, look, you're going to go to this train. Don't even think about trying to pass it. Just try to soak up as much knowledge as you can.
And that's what I think I ended up telling you, you know, as midweek, we got on the phone. I was like, hey, I'm here to support you. And I just that's that was the advice I gave.
Right.
Tonna Thomas
Yeah. Well, I remember initially you were trying to say, like, just go, just go. We have people that we have people that pass with people that don't pass.
Just go. You know, you're doing good, but just go like you do. You need to have that experience.
You need like you said, you need to have the experience of being in it, you know. And I could tell by your face that it was like, OK, he's like, oh, yeah, like, go anyway. You know, you like you said, like, I wouldn't be able to get that the experience, you know, without without going.
I had no idea what I was getting into.
Joel Ellenbecker
Yeah.
Tonna Thomas
I mean, we could do training all day long online or I could train with, you know, law enforcement side or anything else. But until I was submerged into that, I had no idea what I really needed to be confident in and capable of. So like I remember having the conversation, it's like, OK, if I pass a pass, I don't I don't.
OK, is a good idea, you know. And I just had to stick with that. Now, was it easy?
No. You know, you get there like I'm not making this. There's no way, you know.
And I don't think I did as bad as I thought I did, but I felt like I was doing terrible. But yeah, yeah, I knew I was like, you know, Joel, I need some help here.
Joel Ellenbecker
Yeah. Yeah.
Tonna Thomas
And you and Kelly both were amazing. I mean, I had watched and I don't know if I told you this or not, but when you first set me up with training with Kelly, I was just like astonished. I had been watching.
Problem of God Worldwide training videos as much as possible, because like I said, I didn't have the exposure any other way.
Joel Ellenbecker
Right.
Tonna Thomas
So I knew exactly who she was when you first connected me with her. And I was like, oh, my Kelly Campbell.
Joel Ellenbecker
Yeah, she's amazing.
Tonna Thomas
That was pretty amazing. And she did. She was such a great support.
Joel Ellenbecker
But yeah, I mean, I have my own version of that. And I think, you know, any people who in the arena who are like striving towards great things will end up having this experience. But I did full contact kickboxing when I was younger.
And I remember my coach being like, you're going to be more tired than you've ever been in your life. And I was like, OK, yeah, ha ha, you know, whatever. And I did my first fight and I just stood in the middle of the ring and we just like rock them, sock and robot at each other.
I didn't do any of my training. I just tried to hit him hard and tried to block. And he was so right.
Like, I went back to the corner and I was just so exhausted. And like, there are only two minute rounds and I end up losing the fight. But what I took away from it is like, oh, my gosh, like if I'm not that tired in my training, every time I train, I'm not going to be prepared.
Yeah, but I needed the experience of it to know what that was like. So so after you went to phase a, you ended up the first time you ended up finding out you didn't pass. And then how did that fuel or change your preparation for the second time?
Tonna Thomas
It it was a huge motivation because I was determined I'm going back and when I go back, I have to pass this like, you know, and I pushed I pushed hard. I trained every chance I could get. I trained in footwork like crazy.
But also. I think honestly, until I got to the second phase, it didn't even fully click as much. But initially, I did have, you know, something starting to click with the aggressiveness.
Joel Ellenbecker
Yeah.
Tonna Thomas
And all of that that I thought was there. And on the law enforcement side, OK, yeah, it's there. But.
It was still lacking. And so after that, I noticed there was a change in that, too. And I started my my training became a lot more aggressive.
I started putting more there was almost just like more heart into it.
Joel Ellenbecker
Nice.
Tonna Thomas
I thought I had heart into it, but it was a whole different level, you know, and just a drive.
Joel Ellenbecker
Yeah. And you had said earlier, like, you know, you did your you did your due diligence and you decided you wanted to go with Krav Maga worldwide because you wanted the real deal. Like, look, there's a ton of other organizations out there that do Krav Maga training and certifications.
And like you could have just went to a weekend course or done an online course and you could hang your diploma up on the wall. But what I'm hearing right now is like that level of of aggression, that level of attention to detail for your footwork, like that would have never been unlocked or achieved. And, yeah, you could have been teaching Krav, but it wouldn't continue to feed that that spark that you talked about in the beginning like it has now.
Is that right?