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Old 04-25-2012, 08:27 PM   #1
Shipwreck
 
Default Why the hate for KM?

I have been in KM for about 4 months now and I absolutely love it. Of course like anything else I love I like to do a lot of research about it, so I scour the web.

I have come across several sites where people just absolutely despise Krav Maga in all of it's forms. Everything from "I trained with it for X time and didn't get anything from it" to "BJJ/Muay Tai/whatever would totally destroy KM any day."

I'm just wondering why so many have a disdain for KM. Is it because it's not a 'martial art' and more of a 'self defense'? Or is it because it actually works where as a lot of other martial arts would just suffer if a real fight actually happened.

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Old 04-25-2012, 08:57 PM   #2
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Default Re: Why the hate for KM?

I run into that a lot too on my youtube channel. I think it boils down to ignorance. No KM would not do well in the octagon with a ref ready to jump in and save someone. So yes BJJ and MT are great for that application. But then neither of those are a “reality based self defense system”

BJJ grapple or MT roundhouse yourself out of a multiple attackers with weapons scenario and get back to me.

Right tool for the right job.

But thats just my opinion, I could be wrong.
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Old 04-25-2012, 09:35 PM   #3
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Default Re: Why the hate for KM?

[img]http://www.blogcdn.com/www.urlesque....hatereagle.jpg[/img]

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Old 04-26-2012, 01:25 AM   #4
Shipwreck
 
Default Re: Why the hate for KM?

Thanks. The thread that really sparked me to write this one is this one. Just read a few of the posts that Jooba posts about KM and it really makes me wish I was a fly on the wall during a street fight of his precious MT against, like you have said, multiple attackers esp. with weapons.
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:50 AM   #5
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Default Re: Why the hate for KM?

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Love that picture.
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Old 04-26-2012, 03:52 PM   #6
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Default Re: Why the hate for KM?

Well like I said, right tool right job, in a street fight all things being equal MT is awesome, I’m a big fan. BUT guy running at you with a bat – that’s straight KM defense and THEN maybe some MT combatives. (if I don't use his bat back on him :) )

We call those knees and elbows 1-7 btw.
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Old 04-26-2012, 04:42 PM   #7
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Default Re: Why the hate for KM?

I have zero doubts that MT is extremely bad azz. I just think it's funny how after a few months of doing KM, people scoff it off as Krav Magarbage and that's that.
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Old 04-26-2012, 05:52 PM   #8
MDeaneUSCG
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Default Re: Why the hate for KM?

What they don't seem to understand, or don't have the desire to understand, is that Krav is a defense system. The combatives techniques are 100% pulled from other styles. What makes Krav is the self defense techniques. Your initial actions in a violent encounter are what will determine if you get to employ combatives or not. The guys on that post talking about not believing time is well spent training against a knife or gun is practical don't understand this. Yes, maybe you can talk your way out, or just give the mugger what he wants. Sometimes, this isn't an option, and you aren't willing to give what they want (your life). In those situations, any defense is better than no defense, and I feel Krav has quite effective defenses.
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:01 AM   #9
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Default Re: Why the hate for KM?

i think it is normal for people who feel threatened to try to disparage the style/system that they feel is threatening them. everyone wants to believe that whatever style/system that they have invested their time and money in is the best there is. i see lots of new students come into krav and talk about how ridiculous tkd or whatever other system their friends or relatives are/have studied. the great thing about krav is that it borrows from other styles/systems and doesn't try to market itself as the end-all-be-all of defensive systems. krav will get you to a level of proficiency faster than any other style/system that i've discovered and that is the true strength of it - imho
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Old 04-27-2012, 10:11 AM   #10
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Default Re: Why the hate for KM?

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Originally Posted by KMKY View Post
i think it is normal for people who feel threatened to try to disparage the style/system that they feel is threatening them. everyone wants to believe that whatever style/system that they have invested their time and money in is the best there is. i see lots of new students come into krav and talk about how ridiculous tkd or whatever other system their friends or relatives are/have studied. the great thing about krav is that it borrows from other styles/systems and doesn't try to market itself as the end-all-be-all of defensive systems. krav will get you to a level of proficiency faster than any other style/system that i've discovered and that is the true strength of it - imho
+1 Exactly my opinion too. Same goes for other things in life that people are committed to. So as not to devalue their own previous commitment they will try to devalue other peoples choices instead unfortunately instead of looking at the value of both.
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:24 PM   #11
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Default Re: Why the hate for KM?

"Your white crane kung fu will never beat my tiger kung fu"
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Old 05-10-2012, 01:28 AM   #12
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Default Re: Why the hate for KM?

What others have posted is pretty much the reason why but from my observations, people view Krav Maga as the new Tae Bo. The fact that the ability to start teaching Krav is only a certificate away makes Krav look like a scam. Yes KM is known for the quick retention of techniques but people who do not train in KM do not know that. You see Karate/TKD studios all of a sudden start teaching KM because its the "in" thing. That is one of the reason why other arts look down on KM. Another thing is that these studios that suddenly start teaching Krav usually end their certifications at Level 1, so students are stuck with a Level 1 instructor and never grow in the art, coupled with the fact that all they're probably doing is hitting pads... no live sparring/training. KM is self defense oriented with techniques taken from all sort of arts. I believe that if someone trained constantly in a sparring/live environment, they would be able to hold their own in an MMA match... but at that rate are they training KM self defense techniques or are they training BJJ/MT/Boxing?
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Old 05-10-2012, 06:45 AM   #13
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Default Re: Why the hate for KM?

I think Krav is a victim of its own simplicity. Because you can get quite good at it in a relatively short period of time relative to martial arts I think people think its a scam.

People who are training in a particular field for years will feel hard done by something coming along which may be more effective than what they know and can be mastered in a shorter time. Natural human reaction I think. Glad i picked the right one though :-)
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Old 05-11-2012, 04:19 AM   #14
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Default Re: Why the hate for KM?

Hi people

It is a relevant question, Krav Magá is not a sport combat modality as Muay Tai or Boxe is not a martial art neither a sport combat .
There is a big problem on sport combats and martial arts in general, they have rules, they do not training for instance, bites, grabs to the groins, strike the eyes or throat, and in my opinion one the most important things, the avaliation of a situation.
In Krav Maga sometimes the best solution is run away, a roundhouse situation , you can be very good on MT ou BJJ but if the opponent are five or six you will be serious injury or even killed in the middle of confusion by a stab, perhaps you must strike one or two times to find a route to scape, sometimes fight is not the best solution for us, cemetery are full of heroes.
One of the Krav Magá base is prevention, other combat sports don’t have that skill, for them it doesn’t matter and don’t assess well the situation and sometimes goes wrong.
I am an open mind in relations martial arts, you can not forget that Krav Magá techniques are techniques of Boxe, MT, BJJ, Grapplins and so on, that is the true, several techniques that result on the street because Krav Magá was born on street fight.
When I am training Krav Magá I also train (of course) many techniques of boxe and MT, the diference are that people who train MT,BJJ or boxe or other sport combat do not train knife, stick or fire gun and when a thug put a knife on throat at a guy practicing Muay Tai, what he do ? nothing !!!! because he don’t train that situation, he have no answers to that challenge ,MT is good to fight in middle/long distance like Karate, so, I don’t agree people say Krav Magá is no good because is a non sense, Krav Magá is all, is MT, BJJ, Boxe, Grappling and other letal techniques that result on personnal defense, I think people say Krav Magá is no good perhaps don’t know the real Krav Magá, just my opinion.Sorry my bad English…
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Old 05-13-2012, 09:42 AM   #15
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Default Re: Why the hate for KM?

Videos like this could be the reason.

http://youtu.be/29cxviuUKzc


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Old 05-13-2012, 02:11 PM   #16
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Default Re: Why the hate for KM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmasher View Post
"Your white crane kung fu will never beat my tiger kung fu"
Hey Don't Hate!

[img]http://thisismylawn.files.wordpress....karate-kid.jpg[/img]

You do remember what happened next, don't you?





























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Old 05-22-2012, 05:27 AM   #17
revobuzz
 
Default Re: Why the hate for KM?

I think that there is always style bashing. Just go on any Martial Art forum. Krav often get's marketed as the "ultimate self defence" or something similar and that get's peoples back up. If there was one ultimate martial art everyone would do it.
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Old 05-25-2012, 04:19 PM   #18
Shipwreck
 
Default Re: Why the hate for KM?

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I think that there is always style bashing. Just go on any Martial Art forum. Krav often get's marketed as the "ultimate self defence" or something similar and that get's peoples back up. If there was one ultimate martial art everyone would do it.

To me (and please correct me if I am wrong) I see Krav Maga as a self defense rather than a martial art. Sure there are things like proper form etc. that we practice but not to the point of what the others do. In a street fight, form counts for d*ck and intelligence goes out the window.

I knew an amateur MMA fighter quite a few years back that practiced in 'Pankration' and he put it perfectly in my mind. He said that martial arts are just that. Art. They look amazing and have some sort of practicality but all the flash and style doesn't do you much good when you are facing a mugger with a knife or gun or multiple attackers (regardless of what Jet Li and Jackie Chan movies show).

I don't see Krav Maga as a martial art, but rather, like I said, a self defense form. We don't learn fancy katas and smooth, fluid footwork with staffs. We learn how to get out of a deadly situation quickly and efficiently which is good enough for me.
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:52 PM   #19
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Default Re: Why the hate for KM?

This quote stands true no matter what style you practice.

“I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.”



As much as people hate Kata's they are and can be effective if you understand what the techniques of each move represent. They do not need to be used to or practiced for your style to be effective. However consider that every style has some sort of trained defense and combative counter which most style call one-steps. These may merely be two or three techniques which transition better then others. For instance when we use the two handed pluck defense against a chock from the front. Most practitioners follow up with a front kick to the groin, then transition into a series of combatives which they feel most comfortable with.


I think in the end most people that don't dojo hoop have a pretty lop sided view of other styles. I practice several different styles and have a respect for anything that works. It also seems (mainly because I train on a college campus) that most your young practitioners (under 30) of any style only respect what can be proven in the ring. I workout with a lot of folks that refuse to do any stand-up sparring, they truly believe a good ground game is all you need to survive any fight. I also know guys that refuse to kick to the groin. They show up each week with no cup and expect to spar but insist on no kicks in the groin.



in the end these things stand true when everything goes bad


you train like you fight and fight like you train
one is none and two is one
there will be a day when you can't tap out


train hard and be safe,
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Old 05-26-2012, 01:34 PM   #20
KMyoshi
 
Default Re: Why the hate for KM?

The problems with katas is there is no stress/live training when practicing katas (at least this was when I was training in TKD many years ago). That reason alone is why I don't think katas will be worth much in an actual violent encounter. Theoretically if you practice/train it over and over again your body will instinctively do the kata moves, but we all know that when sh*t hits the fan this is not always the case. This can also be said with Krav or any other system/artt but with a choke defense for example, I ask my training partner to really try to choke me. It is up to me to deliver the proper pluck/counter attack and finish him off.
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Old 05-27-2012, 02:55 PM   #21
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Default Re: Why the hate for KM?

Fights are fluid / organic - kata's are not, its as simple as that
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I believe that self-defense is a moral imperative, and that illegitimate force and illegal violence must be met with righteous indignation and superior violence.

But hey, thats just me.
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Old 06-01-2012, 06:30 AM   #22
alpha123
 
Default Re: Why the hate for KM?

I was just thinking about this as I was looking around Muay Thai forums and they were slating krav. It seems fairly obvious that a pro MT fighter would do good in a ring, but what about vs. 3 guys yelling at you, you can't clinch 3 at once.

Personally I am looking forward to the stress part when I start krav-maga as I think this is what people forget about in self-defence. Being used to fighting under stress (like when you punch a bag and people pull you back/dark lights/people shouting) must come in handy.

They were also saying that krav doesn't teach normal punches, just cheap shots to the groin...(which they view as a bad thing, but I'm pretty sure the guy who wants to send you to hospital doesn't exactly want an honorouble match...)

I think it is just a martial arts elitism, and is annoying as I would never bash a martial art or defence system without facts, it's so childish...
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