- This topic has 29 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 15 years, 1 month ago by
.
-
Posts
-
This is my first post so I appologize ahead of time if this is a stupid question.
I just received the Krav Maga for beginners book and was looking at the 360 defense. My question is….what exactly is the 360 defense? Is it one defense (ie. you block an overhead attack and follow the defense through all 7 positions) or is it a way to practice different defenses based on the attack?Thanks,
CoreyRe: 360 Defense
there seperate defences, theres no point in trying to blake an overhand if someone is kicking you in the balls. personaly i dont like it as arms bend and can depend around your blocks like that.
Re: 360 Defense
quote blanker:there seperate defences, theres no point in trying to blake an overhand if someone is kicking you in the balls. personaly i dont like it as arms bend and can depend around your blocks like that.Blanker, I’m curious as to what you see as a better defense option than the 360 defenses…
Re: 360 Defense
I was confused by this for a while too. But now I just interpret “360 defense” as term that describes the entire body of defenses against incoming strikes from various angles. Sort of like referring to all six of the elbow movements as just “elbow strikes.”
Most of these defense are purely instinctual seems like (which I realize is a fundamental building block of Krav Maga technique). When people do the shoulder tap exercise they are naturally doing these defenses. But the training just makes it more explicit, refines this instinctive response, and expands to include counterstriking, weapon disarms, etc. At least that’s the way I interpret the concept at this point.
I can also now see the close relationship betwen Wing Chun (and by extension, Jeet Kune Do, I suppose) and Krav Maga 360 defenses. I’ve never studied Wing Chun, but from what I’ve read about it, this concept of simultaneous centerline redirection of an attack and immediate counter strike is a funamental Wing Chun concept.
Anyway, every time I practice the 360 defenses, I gain more respect for them. I try really hard to hit my partner in these drills and they seem to be very effective defenses when someone is quick and combines them with good body movement/slipping, etc. The downside is the painful bruising from a night of aggressively practicing these things. Ouch!
Re: 360 Defense
quote fred_jennings:Blanker, I’m curious as to what you see as a better defense option than the 360 defenses…i like the peek a boo boxing defence and the fma elbow distruction for covering up which are pretty much the same thing but evasion is better generally and closing the gap aswell.
i have worked the doors in alot of shady places and trying to intercept a strike with a block generally dosnt happen and if it does you still have a pretty good chance of the arm bending and taking the shot. action is quicker then reaction so your defence has to be quick simple and to the point. in a real fight people dont throw single shots and if you try to block alot of shots with the 360 which is really karate blocks you will be playing catch up which will get you ko’ed.
Re: 360 Defense
the 360 defense is the foundation for later defenses, they are not “blocks” exactly. the boxing defense is great against punches, but when a knife is introduced they are less effective.
when i first started i couldn’t understand the value of having two different defenses against choke without a push, but as i advanced in my studies i began to see that they were preparing me for defenses later. the 360 defense works the same way.
hope that makes sense – i went too many rounds last night and didn’t get nearly enough sleep.
Re: 360 Defense
As KMKY pointed out, covering with your hands and arms close to your head will not do you much good if a knife is involved. In most cases, people don’t know the knife was involved until after they have made the defense or after they have been stabbed. Especially working doors in shady clubs, this is a strong argument in favor of the 360 defense. If you add a simultaneous counter-attack to your 360 defense, bursting into the defense with a series of punches from your non-blocking arm, you put the attacker on the defense and slow down his ability to continue with follow up attacks of his own. I agree that if you just try to sit there and defend, you are fighting a losing battle, but if you follow the principles of Krav and turn the tables on the attacker quickly the defense becomes much more useful.
Re: 360 Defense
quote fred_jennings:As KMKY pointed out, covering with your hands and arms close to your head will not do you much good if a knife is involved. In most cases, people don’t know the knife was involved until after they have made the defense or after they have been stabbed. Especially working doors in shady clubs, this is a strong argument in favor of the 360 defense. If you add a simultaneous counter-attack to your 360 defense, bursting into the defense with a series of punches from your non-blocking arm, you put the attacker on the defense and slow down his ability to continue with follow up attacks of his own. I agree that if you just try to sit there and defend, you are fighting a losing battle, but if you follow the principles of Krav and turn the tables on the attacker quickly the defense becomes much more useful.except all your arteries are on the inside of your arm and getting slashed in one of them is fatal so protecting your arteries and neck is much more important, getting stabbed in the head is not really going to kill you. like i said before arms bend so theres as much chance of you getting punched/stabbed with the 360 defence as not.
also like i said before action is faster then re-action so if your that much better then the bloke trying to punch/stab you your better of using evasion and countering, trying using the 360 defence during full contact sparring and you will see what i mean or not as you’ll more then likely get ko’ed.
Re: 360 Defense
You have veins and arteries all through your body, not just in your arm. A fatal cut can be delivered anywhere if the victim allows it to bleed enough. I do full contact sparring everyday and I use the 360 defense in it regularly. There are times it works and times it doesn’t. That’s not what it was designed for though. It’s designed to defend a surprise attack coming from any angle that may or may not include a weapon. It addresses that atack and then moves straight into a counter-attack.
The point of the 360 defense is to make a strong wrist to wrist defense and keep the attacker’s weapon away from your body. The 360 doesn’t just protect your head. That’s why it’s called 360. You protect yourself with this defense in a full 360 degree sphere around the core of your body. One defense against many types of attack… The boxing defense you are talking about works great in boxing, but if a knife is involved I’d rather take my chances getting cut on the arm than anywhere on my core. And again it’s one defense with a simultaneous counter-attack. Then keep attacking. I was taught to go into any fight assuming that the other guy is stronger than me, better than me, and has a weapon and knows how to use it. Any defense I make assumes that.Re: 360 Defense
Fred –
Dont get in a pissing match with blanker. It sounds like he has mad skills that many of us can only dream about. bow1
We are not training guys like him. We’re usually training people with little to no experience that are not going to recognize situations, let alone strikes. This is where people like him just dont get it.
Elbow destructions I just dont like either, but that’s just me.
Oh and I use 360 defense alot in sparring. Its generally limited to 2-4, but I use them and know some professional fighters that use them as well.
Re: 360 Defense
Good points, Oneness. Thanks! Blanker may be good enough to react to knife attacks from the peek-a-boo position or take care of all the other attacks the 360 defends with his lightning quick reflexes… to each his own. But for the rest of us, they are a very useful defense from a variety of attacks.
Re: 360 Defense
quote fred_jennings:Good points, Oneness. Thanks! Blanker may be good enough to react to knife attacks from the peek-a-boo position or take care of all the other attacks the 360 defends with his lightning quick reflexes… to each his own. But for the rest of us, they are a very useful defense from a variety of attacks.you dont understand how fast a real fight actuelly happens! if you think you have a chance of using the 360% defence against a knife i hope it never happens to you.
no ones going to stand 2ft in front of you olding a knife and then try and stab you, he’s going to get into your face and pull a knife, you want even see it coming. the truth is your going to get stabbed your best chance is to start smacking him in the face to force him to cover up before he knows whats happening or has a chance to use his knife. if he pulls a knife and lets you see it, he probably dosnt have any intent on using it, its just a fear tactic. anyway real fighting isnt sparring all of those techniques you learn want work in the pocket with 1 or more agressive oponents throwing punches at you from all angles if your lucky you can cover up and try to get some space but really as soon as you start do try defensive stuff your going to get k.o’ed.
the truth is regardless of how good you are, even at the magical 360% defence if you let someone pull a blade on you, you have probably already lost.Re: 360 Defense
While I am all for the Geoff Thompson approach, the truth is, we don’t always get the first one. Furthermore, if you are late, the fastest thing you have are your hands, therefore the advent of the 360. Remember, it is designed to stop the first one, but the counterattacks are there to stop the 2nd, the 3rd, the 4th, etc. While I understand where Blanker is coming from on this, if one were to read these posts alone, the impression would be that no one survives knife attacks, and that simply isn’t true.
Re: 360 Defense
Blanker, you are the one that doesnt get it and thats fine.
I’ve had shot guns pulled on me, knives and been in multiple attackers situations, road rage incidents, etc. I have even been the aggressor and the asshole that picked on blokes like you. I did alot of growing up over the years and now train people to protect themselves.
Its different for you if you are a bouncer, and yes, I’ve done that too. Its very easy to do things when you are the sober one and fighting people that have been drinking.
I’m done with this discussion you are like most that have done some martial arts, bounced and beat up some drunk people and think you know something. You proabably cant kick correctly, cant punch correctly and proabably cant defend correctly. I see it all the time.
Re: 360 Defense
i got knifed a few years back i think i even did a post about it. im not saying everyone dies if thay get a knife pulled on them. the human body is amazingly durable! i never even knew he had a knife until i looked in the mirror and there was a massive gash in my face the thing that saved me was punching him in the head until he fell on the floor.
limbs bend if you try to put arm in the way against some throwing a knife at you full force your arm is going to bend its just basic common sence or if your super strong and your arm dosnt bend and he hits you in his elbow his arm will bend, either way your still getting stabbed.only the very best boxers in the world can block and counter at the same time early in a fight its an incredible skill to have. some nutter wildly attacking you with a knife as fast as he can dosnt give a **** were he stabs you, defence dosnt even come into it, you try and defend one strike and counter and he will get you with the another.
do you really think its that easy to k.o someone with one strike? like a said before the human body is incredibly tough.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
