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Team 1: \”Oh lord, please grant our team a victory this day\”
Team 2: \”God give us the win\”God: \”Would you guys shut up already! I’m trying to watch the game!’
\”So to what do they attribute the bad things? The Devil? What if both competitors are Christians? Does God pick one Christian over the other? If so, what measurement does God use to determine which individual he \”gives the nod\” to? It’s ridiculous. I don’t think God cares who wins competitions. Surely he has other things to worry about\”
I wasn’t trying to make the argument that He intervenes, only that it’s appropriate for \”believers\” to attribute their successes to Him. As Christians, we’re taught \”in whatever I do, to do it as though I’m working for the Lord and not for men. For it is the Lord Christ that I am serving, and I know that I will receive a reward from the Lord as my inheritance.\” (Col 3: 23-25) For the Faithful, this can be very motivating and create in you the desire to please God in whatever you do – To follow that out logically, one would have to attribute their success to Him.
Failures, shortcomings, etc … are attributable to being human – Success does not come to those who \”pray harder\” or \”get the nod.\”
No doubt He has more to worry about than the UFC or other competitions!
Sounds reasonable,
By the way my family is fulll of Born again Christians and ordained ministers so I am certainly not attacking your faith. Maybe this is a conversation for another board but I have attempted to have these types of discussions with people of faith in the past.
Do you really believe that the Bible is the word of God?
I sure hope not. G-d wouldn’t write a book about homicide, fratricide, and all the other \”cides.\” The key, for me, is the lessons(well most of the lessons) that the Torah/Talmud/\”Old\” Testament can teach one. I would hope and expect that New Testament and Koran do the same.
If you believe it really happened, then go ahead. I don’t see how it hurts me or anyone.Yeah…..
The Bible has been translated by men. Man is flawed and therefore capable of making mistakes and even being more sinister than that! So what is the truth? I would really like an answer to this question!
Sounds like a good question for KravMDjeff…
I also find it peculiar when both fighters are praying to the same God to let them win. How is he going to decide? What about all of those other worldly problems? They may be more important than who wins a boxing match.
On the other hand, if his faith gives the fighter strength and/or motivation to train/become a champion, it can be a useful tool.
\”Do you really believe that the Bible is the word of God?\”
Yes – I do
\”I sure hope not. G-d wouldn’t write a book about homicide, fratricide, and all the other \”cides.\” The key, for me, is the lessons(well most of the lessons) that the Torah/Talmud/\”Old\” Testament can teach one. I would hope and expect that New Testament and Koran do the same.
If you believe it really happened, then go ahead. I don’t see how it hurts me or anyone.\”Lazlo – Why wouldn’t God \”write\” about the horrific state of mankind. The Bible is all about man and his relationship to God – It stands to reason that there would be an abundance of man’s failures, and subsequent reconciliation to God through the forgiveness of sin. The New Testament is filled with the Old Testament teachings, from the perspective that the Messiah who was predicted in the Old Testament has returned, and forgiveness / reconcilliation is now a \”function\” of the acceptace that Jesus Christ is the Messiah, having fulfilled the prophecies of the Old Testament. Rember – Jesus was Jewish – As were his earliest followers. On the most basic level, the biggest difference between the Old and New Testaments are the abolishment of Old Testament law, being replaced by relationship with the New Tetament King. The lessons and expectations of each are essentially the same.
http://www.gotquestions.org/difference-old-new-testaments.html
Perhaps you’re right – This may be a conversation for another board – Not for Bas’ return to the ring!
\”The Bible has been translated by men. Man is flawed and therefore capable of making mistakes and even being more sinister than that! So what is the truth? I would really like an answer to this question!\”
This is a question for someone better at \”apologetics\” than I. However, I wonder if by translate you mean literally (i.e. the translation from Greek and other languages from the initial \”worldly\” writers) or translation meaning \”from God to man.\” I think the answer may be totally different. For man to translate from another language – It would be easy for someone fluent in both languages. Also remember that there are several versions of the Bible. Some are word for word, some thought for thought. While there is certainly room for error, millions upon millions of people over the last 2000 years have come to essentially the same conclusion about these writiings – In my opinion it’s a bit of a stretch to think that someone with sinister motivation could have corrupted the original writings and not been outed over 2000 years …
If you mean \”God to man\” — I suppose it’s a matter of Faith; the profound belief in something that you can’t reach out and touch.
The idea that a single man can be chosen as G-d’s son is one of the essential differences betweent the \”Old\” and the \”New.\” The Old holds that we all are, for better or worse, G-d’s sons and daughters.
Original Sin is another major difference. That is a concept that I can’t wrap my head around. Perhaps I misunderstand it, but why is one considered born with sin for the crime of being born?
As this relates to Bas’ and his fight, Holland (right?)sure is a pretty country, and they have some forward thinking ideas…uh…that’ s all I got.Nice reach on Holland – Better than I could have come up with! 😉
I disagree – The idea that we are all sons and daughters of God is not exclusive to the Old T. According to Christian belief, Jesus was not simply the \”Son of God\” he was God – The Son of Man, and as in the Old T we are all the sons and daughters of God. Christianity while monotheistic believes in a triune God. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit (the Trinity). Jesus, while wholly man was divinely God – God on Earth, come to live, suffer, and die for the sins of mankind so that we may all, through belief in his fulfillment of the Old T prophecies (specifically that we believe in Him, confess and repent of our sins) be forgiven of our sins and reconciled to God.
The term ìoriginal sinî deals with Adamís sin and its effects upon the rest mankind from that time on, particularly in how it affected our nature and our standing before God, even before we are old enough to commit conscious sin. So essentially, all men by nature are born sinners, and are in need forgiveness and reconciliation. There are differing views throughout different denominations of Christianity regarding the implication, and requirements to \”atone\” for this original sin. For example, Catholicism requires baptism in infancy for one to be cleansed of original sin (a practice I don’t find Biblical and don’t subscribe to).
I think most of them are Christians over there. So maybe Bas prays, too? But Kimo’s got the larger cross, if you know what I mean….
switchback:
Team 1: \”Oh lord, please grant our team a victory this day\”
Team 2: \”God give us the win\”God: \”Would you guys shut up already! I’m trying to watch the game!’
Funny – And probably true! 😆
Okay, I can’t believe I missed this one for this long.
God does NOT grant people victory in sports because they believe a certain thing, or because they pray beforehand. Besides, someone who simply prays to win is praying for their own desire to be done, without regard to actually attempting to follow God’s will (which is the definitive purpose of a person who has committed to following God in a spiritual relationship).
In other words, God will do what he, in his all-knowing state, knows what is best to communicate his love and power. If that means that a Christian would lose a sporting competition to learn the lesson of not finding one’s ultimate value in worldly achievement, then so be it.
I do agree that Christians who participate in anything with passion, whether it be music, academics, or Krav Maga, they usually have a spiritual connection between that activity and their relationship with God. Though I’m very slow to talk about it with my students (I don’t want to abuse my position of leadership/authority as an instructor to force people to hear my perspective on an unrelated issue-but I will share if asked), I pray for my Krav students to receive what we teach them and I pray that God would use it to make them safer and happier in life.
Also, having worked on translations of the Bible as a part of my graduate education, I can tell you that there are many variations in the different translations…none of which affect the overall message. Regardless of what one thinks the Bible to be, a thinking person cannot dismiss it on rational grounds because of translation issues, unless they are willing to jettison any knowledge of history before the advent of modern English. Everything we know about the world earlier than about 400 years ago depends upon accurate translation. And thousands of scholars have dedicated their lives to bringing this about as accurately as humanly possible.
Further, source documentation is deemed accurate based upon two factors: 1) the number of corroborating manuscripts (read: copies) of a given text, and 2) the closeness in time that the manuscripts are dated from the original.
One of the most credible documents of the ancient world is Herodotus’ histories (it usually is ranked in the top five). We currently have about 300-400 manuscripts of his work, dating about 450-500 years after it was originally written.
The New Testament has an AVERAGE of about 6500-7000 manuscripts, dating about 250 years after the original. In other words, by textual criticism standards alone, the New Testament is exponentially more credible as an historical document than the closest second. But why is its accuracy still questioned? Because some followers of its teachings have used its content to justify horrible acts of cruelty on a large scale, for one. Another reason is because it deals with the supernatural, so no matter what kind of historical credibility it has, a large number of people will categorically reject any reliability at all.
Also, on the subject of Original Sin: This isn’t something all Christians accept. Many Christians would say that humans are essentially good, but once born into a tainted world, they too become tainted. Or, that humans are essentially good but weak, and thus fall into evil. Rather than worry about the explanation of why, I’ve found it much more helpful to simply recognize that the world is full of pain and heartache, and that there are some very powerful answers as to how to rise above such a state.
But as far as your question for \”What is the truth?\” You may have some ideas about what Christians say the truth is, but it’s not my job or any other person’s job to convince you that we’re right. I would only say that those who are more interested in finding the truth than finding something that makes them feel good about themselves, generally do find it.
My assumption is if there is indeed a god, he’d be far removed from the human concepts of faith, prayers, hopes and fears, connections to this or that, and so forth.
G.V., that is the absolute antithesis of God’s very nature!
The beauty of belief is knowing that the Creator of the universe knows YOU – Cares about YOU, and invites YOU into a relationship with Him!
On the surface it is unbelieveable, but through faith this relationship is nurtured; it grows, and as you begin to recognize His work in your life, you realize that this relationship is two sided, and that through His Grace we are cleansed of our iniquities and freed from the guilt of our sin. You’re not just throwing preyers out to no one – He is listening, and according to His will he responds …
In case you’re interesed …
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