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Imagine a guy much bigger than yourself catching you off guard. You happen to be standing close to a wall and he suddenly grabs you by the neck, with his left hand, and pushes you, pinning you against it. His pushes upward, lifting you by the neck in such a way that your feet are now left dangling several inches off the ground. Your head is being pushed back into the wall, face pointing upwards because of the way he is grabbing your neck, which makes it impossible for you to tuck your chin. Then he punches you in the face with his right hand.
How would you defend in such a situation? I’m assuming that this person would be much bigger than you are, since it would probably be hard to lift a person your own size up with only one hand, although it might be possible, if the attacker is strong enough.
Our regular choke against a wall defense might not work well in this scenario, since it might be hard to turn sideways without your legs touching the ground. A pluck might not be strong enough from that position. If you do try to pluck, maybe you could try and use your other hand to help push his hand or at least thumb off your neck.
You could also try to use your forearms to push down on his elbow and forearm, trying to collapse his arm and take the pressure off your neck. That might still leave you pinned against the wall however and he can still punch you.
Your best bet for a counter attack would probably be a kick to the groin if you can reach it, if not kick his body or ribs, maybe knees. It would probably be hard to give any kind of effective punch from that position.
Of course, if he is punching you, you would also have to worry about defending that punch and covering your head, so if you use both hands to try and get his hand off your neck, you might lose that cover and get hit and each punch would be devastating with the wall behind you and your head not having anywhere to go (and also considering that the attacker is heavier and stronger).
I wonder if our choke against the wall defense (arm straight up into the air, dropping the shoulder and turning) could still work if you would push your feet against the back wall, to try and push off that.
If his arm is straight, you could also try to use your arms to turn his elbow inward and then push straight down in some type of arm lock, trying to force him down and let go, although that would probably be very difficult from that position.
Or maybe you could simply try to pull his thumb back, off your neck, and as it comes off your neck the rest of his hand would follow. I’m just thinking, if he pushes upwards like that his thumb might be relatively straight (as oppopsed to a regular choke, where it would be more curled up). In a straight position like that you may not need a lot of power to pull his thumb back, so even without the pluck, you might still be able to do it. Then, once his whole hand comes off your neck, you can counter attack and try to get away from the wall, so he won’t pin you again. If you can’t pull the thumb backwards, you could also push it inwards instead to create pressure (thumb lock). You might even be able to do that with one hand and still cover with the other.
So, what would you do think? I think that last one may work, but one would have to try it.
Geez, why don’t you throw in a few machine-gun totin’ thugs while you’re at it!!! Nah, just kiddin ya! 😉
I think my reaction in this situation would be to go for the one hand pluck. Of course, if this guy had super-long arms I probably couldn’t get the counter and break the choke. Hey!!! There’s a guy at BrandX who could probably lift me with his left hand! Maybe I’ll ask him for some help…. 🙄 😆
Yeah, it would be best to try this out, but better get a nice giant to help you with it, not a badass, and make sure to tell him to pull his punches! 😉
So far I haven’t had a big guy handy to push me up the wall, but I tried to grab the throat of my BOB bag like that to see what it would feel like for the attacker. Now BOB has a pretty big neck and isn’t all that easy to grab with one hand, but I noticed that how I envisioned the attacker to grab (more to hold the victim up than to choke him, so if he grabs with his left hand his thumb would be on the left side of the victims neck, not in front of the throat pushing in as in a regular one armed choke) that the pressure would come mostly from all of his weight pushing forward, thus pushing his hand into your throat, rather than from the thumb pushing in. So his thumb would be relatively lose and I think with a pluck or even possibly without one, you could probably pull his thumb back and then sideways, getting his hand off or push it inward for a thumb lock, also making him let go, then you can get into a position to counter attack.
Of course he might also hold you in a more regular one armed choke, but even then a pluck could probably still work.
If you are suspended up against the wall by his extended left hand,then much of your body weight is resting on his hand.I wouldn’t think that you could generate enough force in a pluck to counter that.It would be too ‘anchored’.
Unless ,instead of plucking near his hand,you were able to forcefully pluck/push against the inner surface of his elbow.The sideways force might have the same effect on the joint as would a kick to the back of the knee joint.Your added body weight would collapse his arm.
If this was an actual attack 99% of the time your legs would still be longer than his arms that would be your weapon of chose. It wouldn’t matter where you kicked him, Body, Legs, Groin you would just keep on kicking you could never stop with your counter attackes. The proper way for you to use your hands would be to block his right hand from hitting you. Any pluck that you might try would not work here. To do any type of pluck you need a good foundation. You could use your back against the wall and pushing forward with your legs as a leverage to gain space so the grip would loosen. When he does let you go you would have to circle away from the wall while throwing combatives and gaining space. (any plucks would not work So forget about the hand that is chocing you in this case.) As in any situation the intensity of your counter attack will help in the outcome.
I would say you shoulda ran like heck to begin with. I haven’t seen a good one handed choke lifting someone off the ground since the very first Star Wars movie… 😀
I wonder how effective kicks would be from that position. With both feet off the ground you may not be able to generate a lot of force. Maybe you could put one of your feet against the wall behind you and then use that as a foundation as you are kicking. That might make your kicks stronger. It’s also possible that the attacker might stand sideways a bit, which might make it harder to reach the groin. The problem with collapsing the arm is that he couls still hold you up, even with a collapsed arm and then he would be too close to kick, although you could try knees, maybe eye gouge if you can reach, but of course he could do the same back to you and he’s in a better position, so it would be a bit of a risk to take (you might just piss him off more).
Maybe the best thing to do would be to cover your head with your left arm, kick as much as possible and at the same time use your right hand to try and pluck or pull the thumb off your neck. Once the thumb is pulled back, he probably won’t be able to hold you up anymore. Once on the ground you can do the regular defense if necessary (if he tries to reapply the hold). Otherwise just get away from the wall fast while giving as many counter attacks as possible.
Stepping It Up a Notch:Extreme Measures
An edged weapon or improvised weapon (broken glass, spilled coffee, etc.) will do wonders to get you to escape to a safe area. Target whatever is closest to you. But to use an edged weapon, you must be in imminent danger (for example, you are being choked to the brink of death and your options aren’t effective) and have a perfectly good explanation (guy weighed 300 lbs, large hands, etc.). Otherwise, it might too excessive.
I’m not sure how likely it wouid be to have an edged weapon available while already in that position. Even if you carry a knife, it might be hard to get it out of your pocket while he holds you like that and punches your face in.
Maybe, if you are in a bar or something, you might have a beer bottle in your hand or a glass. If you are still holding it while you are pinned (and not drop it in surprise while you are being attacked) I guess you could try to hit him with it. If he’s too far away, you could break the glass/bottle against the wall behind you, then stab the shattered bottle into the arm that’s holding you, cutting him as much as possible. That would probably make him let go, giving you a chance to escape, either using conventional counter attacks or also the broken glass if you need to, so you can create distance and get away.
I’d assume you’d be justified to do that under those circumstances, since this would be a pretty strong, dangerous attack. And if you are just cutting his arm you are not mortally wounding him, so I think that would have to be justified.
I think if you allowed yourself to be picked up and pinned, you haven’t been training long enough. However, you can still knee, punch, and gouge the eyes of your attacker. Go with your defense against a choke training. Important, bring your chin tight to your chest and maintain eye contact. Bringing your chin in tight to your chest will make it more difficult for thug to choke you.
Most important go in the direction you are being pulled…take up that distance so if he is a larger guy he doesn’t put your tools out of reach.
Hey giantkiller,
Sorry, somehow I missed this whole thread for a while.
First, I think you’ll be surprised how often the regular wall defense will work in this situation. You are right that there is less force in your rotation, but remember you don’t need much force. You just need to be able to drop your other shoulder slightly.
My biggest concern here isn’t the ability to make the rotational defense — as a physical movement, it will probably still work — it’s whether or not the movement is natural to make from here. If you’re pinned this way and taking punches, you’re going to have a natural reaction to cover up with both hands, which would keep you squared up to the attacker and therefore make the rotational defense more difficult.
If that’s happening, I’d either strike or eye gouge with one hand while trying to pluck with the other (the pluck may not work with the wall in your way, but it’ll be instinctive to send a hand to your throat anyway). If there is more space between you, I’d get a knee up and into his chest or throat and try to cause separation that way.
The thing to keep in mind that is that for someone to be able to pick you up WITH ONE HAND he’s got to be much, much bigger than you (either that or he’s Darth Vader), so your fight is going to be hard no matter what.
Hi John!
Good to hear from you! It’s always good to know what the expert has to say!
So, you think you would still be able to rotate? I imagined that you would be able to drop your shoulder, but it seems to me like it would be very hard to turn sideways without having the ground to push off of. But maybe you could use the wall to help you with the rotation? (Put your feet against it?)
As I mentioned, the way I imagined the attacker to hold you, his hand would be on your neck, but up high, underneath your chin, pushing your head upwards and back, so you couldn’t really tuck your chin. His thumb would be around your neck, rather than pushing against the throat. With your head pushed up like that I think it would be hard to give any kind of strong counter attacks with your hands, because your weight would be back (no weight in your punches or even eye gouges). So I think maybe kicks would be your best option for counter attacks and at the same time maybe cover with one hand and try to pluck with the other.
Have you ever had a chance to try this? I know you are a pretty big guy, so you probably don’t have to worry about it. But maybe if the big Russel stops by the center, he could try and lift you like that! 😛
I actually know at least one guy who can lift me with one hand. He did it once, not by the neck but by the foot. But he was kind of grinning at me as he did that and it looked like he wasn’t even trying that hard! Now that guy was A LOT bigger than me and very muscular and I wouldn’t want to fight a guy like that for real, pinned against a wall or not (I’d rather fight Darth Vader, to be honest) but it shows everything is possible. But you are right, it would be a very tough fight!
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