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Re: Bullies
quote Bracius:Zero Tolerance for a tool is a baffling example of social degeneration. It seems that we (society) are completely loosing grasp on critical thinking skills.This is right on the money. Zero tolerance means we no longer have to think at all. In my son’s case, the principal didn’t decide to suspend him, the zero tolerance policy mandated it. In the eyes of the policy itself, my son made the decision to suspend himself when he took action to defend himself. It was however the decision of principal that my son get a 7-day suspension while the actual bullies only got one day. It was on this point I was eventually able to prevail, as common sense was simply not on her side.
quote kvmorl:I don’t have kids yet, but it is very upsetting to know that kids cannot defend themselves without harming their school record.And this was the real rub! My son had it entered into his permanent record that he had attacked someone and the omission of key information made it seem like he had been completely unprovoked. No mention of the fact that it was actually three boys, that they were all older and larger than him, nor that we had already complained to the school that these specific boys were bullying him. Although we could not get them to remove this entry, or even add an explanation of the mitigating circumstances to it, state law allowed us to provide our side of the story in his file as a separate entry, which we did.
Re: Bullies
Back in the days of covered wagons when I was iin school. Telling the teacher got you a special dose of attention after and forever. we teach people everyday how to treat us. If they think they can put hands on us or intimidate us they will. Why? Cause in the end all personal relationships are about power and control. We may not like the sound of that intellectually, but its true.
Bully tactics don’t end in grade school or even high school, nor are they always physical. Learning to stand up for ourselves is part of the process of self reliance. Seems like societies breed a victim mentality. I got my ass kicked one night in a bar by 7 guys because I forgot one basic rule I learned as a kid. Never, ever let anyone put their hands on you aggressively at anytime. If they do, bare your teath with disapporpriate force because they’ll keep seeing haw far they own you. And the last person you can depend on is the teacher, security or the ultimate myth of the 1st responder. Remember they show up guns drawn after the fact. But they are good for calling the ambulance after. Thats what the walkie talkies Are for.:dunno: In the end we have to take responsibilityfor ourselves. Thats life
Trish your kid did good. That kid woulda thrown him around everytime he felt like it and worse after he became the tattletale. Now eventhe 4th graders will avoid him
Re: Bullies
What a great thread.
When I was in high school we had a bully. Appearently he kept nagging this really quiet guy that was really a good kid. This one time, I guess he over did it and the victim kid went home and returned with a very large piece of lumber with a 2 inch construction nail sticking out of its other hand. He seeked the bully and in the middle of the yard, in front of everyone, drove those two inches of rusty metal completely through the bully’s skull.
The next day the principal had an open conversation with the entire school in the auditorium. She was holding the weapon and showed us MRI pictures of the bully’s head. The doctors had said that if the nail would have been only a few millimeters longer, it would have penetrated the soft tissues of the brain! Everyone in the school praised the good kid for standing up to himself. The good kid got expelled but we protested in they let him return. The bully proceeded to be expelled from the school and then expelled again from the second high school because he forcedully touched a girl in her private areas in the school bus…
Re: Bullies
quote parishd:… they would reduce his suspension to match the other boys (one day) if I would tell him, while in her office, that violence was never an appropriate response; …I finally thought of a good comeback for statements like this (I deny that I am getting old!, I’ve never been good at “snappy” comebacks).
So the thing to say to this is:
“So, If I put you in a time machine and sent you back to Germany in 1933 could you tell that to the Jewish people there and smooth over the difficulties they during that era.”
Re: Bullies
quote unstpabl1:Trish your kid did good. That kid woulda thrown him around everytime he felt like it and worse after he became the tattletale. Now even the 4th graders will avoid himVery true! My son was very happy to report the next day that he was praised by some of the older kids and was called “Little Bruiser”. He feels more confident and some of the other kids will know not to mess with him.
Re: Bullies
quote KMCat:“So, If I put you in a time machine and sent you back to Germany in 1933 could you tell that to the Jewish people there and smooth over the difficulties they during that era.”HA! I tried so hard not to use that in my position but I am right there with you man. Not that she or anyone else is a pacifist when it comes to Nazi era Germany but is brings to light the point that we are making.
Violence is simply a tool. The merits, ethics, and moral standing of violence is almost entirely developed by the parties involved. The United States, Great Briton, and Russia are all praised by using violence against Germany. While [Nazi] Germany itself is villanize for using it.
Why such the disconnect from understanding the moral construct in a scenario between two students and an example from the history books. Is it because our elders before us were able to understand the moral implications of not defending yourself or standing up for the little guy? Why is it when students do that in school they are treated like criminals? Or is it only ok when the government does it but us little people are far below such high level thinking ……………… BAH! where is that sarcastic smiley?!
Re: Bullies
quote Satilan:What a great thread.When I was in high school we had a bully. Appearently he kept nagging this really quiet guy that was really a good kid. This one time, I guess he over did it and the victim kid went home and returned with a very large piece of lumber with a 2 inch construction nail sticking out of its other hand. He seeked the bully and in the middle of the yard, in front of everyone, drove those two inches of rusty metal completely through the bully’s skull.
The next day the principal had an open conversation with the entire school in the auditorium. She was holding the weapon and showed us MRI pictures of the bully’s head. The doctors had said that if the nail would have been only a few millimeters longer, it would have penetrated the soft tissues of the brain! Everyone in the school praised the good kid for standing up to himself. The good kid got expelled but we protested in they let him return. The bully proceeded to be expelled from the school and then expelled again from the second high school because he forcedully touched a girl in her private areas in the school bus…
Dude……..he totally nailed it.
SORRY! SORRY! I couldn’t leave it alone…….. I am a bad bad boy.
Re: Bullies
I was a really little kid….and even though I was a pretty competitive wrestler I still got a ton of bullying because of my size, and the fact that I did not carry myself in such a way that showed I was proud of myself and would stand up for myself. Eventually I had enough and when one of those normal instances happen where a kid would walk right through me, I turned around shot a double leg, drove him to the wall and started punching. I got suspended for the day and got my a$$ beat by him later, but at least I was fighting for myself.
It changed everything….not because people we’re scared I’d fight, but because it helped me start to build up self esteem and confidence. The biggest thing MA gives kids is confidnece and belief in themselves….and THAT’S what keeps bullies away. Bullies prey on the kids they perceive as weak and scared…they are doing it to make themselves feel bigger and better.
Work hard to build your kids’ self worth. Work with them, build them up, and make sure they know you have their back. If we can instill the traits of good leadership in our kids there will be two benefits….1. the bullies will move on 2. We’ll be building the leaders of tomorrow.
Re: Bullies
Andrew LLyod Weber of all people said something to this effect last night on American Idol. I “THINK” this is the quote but I’m going to see if I can find it online later to make sure. “It takes courage to be great”I found it inspiritional.
It takes courage to speak your mind. It takes courage to do whats right. It takes courage not to go with the crowd, the flow, or to not agree for fitting ins sake. It takes courage to face rejection and confusion. It takes courage to trust and courage to admit there are those you can’t trust. It takes courage to focus on the positive and to use the negative as a stepping stone. It takes courage, I imagine to even let your kid out the door. And just like it takes courage to be a parent, we sometimes forget the courage it took to be a kid. So I’m going with Sir Andrew on this. “It takes courage to be great” because we humans have the potential for greatness, if only we dare. And “He Who Dares Wins” ( British SAS Motto)
Re: Bullies
“It takes courage to speak your mind. It takes courage to do whats right. It takes courage not to go with the crowd, the flow, or to not agree for fitting ins sake. It takes courage to face rejection and confusion. It takes courage to trust and courage to admit there are those you can’t trust. It takes courage to focus on the positive and to use the negative as a stepping stone. It takes courage, I imagine to even let your kid out the door. And just like it takes courage to be a parent, we sometimes forget the courage it took to be a kid. So I’m going with Sir Andrew on this. “It takes courage to be great” because we humans have the potential for greatness, if only we dare. And “He Who Dares Wins” ”
WOW, stealing that!
Re: Bullies
As I grew older I moved in with my grandparents. My grandfather was a Navy Boxer and all around bar brawler, even when he was a senior. He followed the ways of you fight them or you can come home and be punished for not fighting back.
I knew that if I was in trouble he had my back as long as I was right. He would curse out any teacher or principal, if I was right. Luckily, I didn’t make too many bad choices. I was 5’4″ and about 90lbs. at 11 years olds. When I turned 13 I was 6’3″ and about 190lbs. I had a whole different set of problems then. He explained to me about sticking up for the little guy against the bullies.
This is one thing I am very glad my son does. My son will help anyone that he feels is being mistreated. It could be a child or a cat, he doesn’t care. He has gotten in trouble for rescuing a lizard from a boy who was chasing it through the halls at school. As it ran past my son he grabbed it and told the boy to leave it alone.
My girls are about the same age and stick up for each other. They will challenge man or beast.
I think the biggest thing Zero Tolerance does is take away self esteem and justice. If you are afraid of being penalize for sticking up for yourself you’re going to become more of a victim every time. To punish both children the same means that there is no benefit to doing what is right.
Re: Bullies
My first year in high school was a bad one.On the first day of school,in front of other classmates,two larger heavier students knocked the books out of my hands & challenged me to ‘do something about it’.
Going to the teacher or counselor just wasn’t done back then.It never even occurred to me.
I picked up my books,turned my back & walked away.That set the tone for the rest of the first year.(There were a number of delinquents in that class).
Its been over 45 years since that day.I’d be willing to bet that those two kids ,now grown men,don’t remember me or that episode.I’m sure they wouldn’t believe the effect their actions had on me.
I remember it as if it was yesterday.I can still see the smirking look on their faces & how I felt at that time.
I’ll remember it to the day I die.Those few minutes had a lasting effect on me.I would gladly pay thousands of dollars to have an opportunity to go back & re-live those few moments….to respond differently then I did.Even if it meant those two thugs pounded the snot out of me.I never got in trouble at school.This was a catholic high school run by Jesuits.There is no question that a violent response on my part would have lead to suspension even though I was the victim.
It would have been worth it.
To any young men or girls reading this post.If you are currently a victim of bullying.
Keep my experience in mind.For decades,I have sufferered more emotionally from this then I could EVER have sufferered physically at the time it occurred.Re: Bullies
Its interesting to me that right now in the forums this thread and the zero tolerance one are both so popular since the subject matter is really so close.
I wonder what that says about our social mentality in todays climate.
Just an observation.
Re: Bullies
Just got from my Krav class a few hours ago. Monday night a new guy started coming. He’s very weak and needs a lot of work. However he tried his heart out and gave it his all which I respect tremedously. Everyone has a story on why they are taking Krav classes. Well today when I got to class I was stretching on the mat about 5 minutes before class started. I heard one of the instructors say to another instructor, “Oh good here comes Ryan (not his real name)”. The other instructor ask who’s Ryan? The first instructor said the new kid who is going to a high school where he is basically getting beaten up everyday by a bully. Heard him say that he get’s choked out at school and the bully is even choking out some of the girls. The first instructor was sincerely glad that Ryan came back. I could tell the first instructor is going to do what he can to make sure that by the time summer is over and Ryan has to go back to school that Ryan will be able handle the bully. The conversation made me feel good and my respect for the instructor and Ryan grew even more now that I know the story. Kick butt Ryan – and may the bully be know more.
DS314
Re: Bullies
Its actually really interesting to find out why people really get into martial arts. I think alot of us got into it cause we got our azz beat or attacked or even witnessed violence. You can usually tell those people cause the train more seriously and rarely have the bs bravado. People get picked on at all ages by all ages in various ways.
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