Can fight class ingrain bad habits?

[stevetuna]

We had a great fight class going last night. A great mix of people showed up, all with strong skills in various areas. Towards the end of the night, we set up a “ring” with five standing heavy bags. The first guy in fought five short rounds, one round against each of the other participants. The orders were as follows: punches to the body at 70%, to the head at 20%, kicks to the legs and body at 50%, no head kicks, groin kicks, knees or elbows.

I found myself compelled to fight in a way that I normally wouldn’t. My usual style is to close quickly and attack on the inside, mostly with head / body punches, knees and elbows. This is due to my build (like a little troll) and the fact that I’ve punched things for 35 years and kicked for only 5…

The result was that my attacks could be more easily muted by my (taller, younger, better looking, better skilled, etc.) opponents, who would wrap up my head and take some body shots. We’d then get separated and I’d eat some round kicks as I tried to fight my way back in.

So… I guess the question is does such a drill ingrain bad habits, training me to omit more effective techniques in trade for more “sporting” methods? I’m a big believer in that you’ll fight as you train. Also, I’m crazy but not stoooopid – I understand that we can’t be blasting each other in the nuts or opening up with huge knees and elbows. I guess I’m just looking for the happy medium.

Let’s have some ideas, folks! Thanks in advance.

[getsmart]

Re: Can fight class ingrain bad habits?

I agree that you fight how you train. However, sometimes it is necessary in training to step outside your comfort zone.

This is because no matter how well you train with your particular technique, when s*&% hits the fan it’s most likely gonna be a variation of what you trained for, if not totally different.

So, by being forced to train differently than you’d want to fight, you’re essentially training for the unknown.

I have no intention of going to the ground in a street fight. However I do basic ground training because I know the more I try to prevent it, the more likely it’s gonna happen (Murphy’s Law, right?).

So, do hardcore training on your strengths so they become instinct. But expose yourself to your weaknesses and train them appropriately so you know what to do when it goes sideways.

Hope this made sense.

[bey]

Re: Can fight class ingrain bad habits?

First off, LOL @ “better looking” opponents.

I would agree with Getsmart. Fights aren’t always going to play to your strengths, so it’s good training to be uncomfortable in a fight and work with what you can.

I also think it’s a good thing that you are aware that while closer to your opponent, you see openings where you could throw elbows and knees, however due to the “rules” you just aren’t able to throw these. I see how you would be frustrated in training like this though.

[dkatman]

Re: Can fight class ingrain bad habits?

I think your question and your story tell two different scenarios.

Yes, I think any class CAN ingrain bad habits.

I don’t think the class you described does this. I think it got you to practice techniques you don’t usually use because they don’t usually suit you. They still have a place. They just aren’t your choices (and you state smart reasons for that). I have had several techniques I have learned that I say out loud “I won’t be using that”, just because I see it, I get it, but either I am not so spectacular at it or I think something more basic might be more appropriate from me.

It is still good for you to train them and let your body know how it feels to throw or kick should you have the right opportunity to use.

I think you then go on to question it because you have good situational awareness. It is that awareness that then filters out these moves.

If you have a 1 foot reach and your opponent has a 3 foot reach, you may know how to fight from 2 feet away, but you also have the intelligence to either move in or way out.

If your next opponent has a 6 inch reach, the situation is much different.

Dave

[stevetuna]

Re: Can fight class ingrain bad habits?

Very good points. Thank you, Dave!

Who is it that said “The growth is in the discomfort…” (Thanks, Ryan!)

[nemo-dat]

Re: Can fight class ingrain bad habits?

quote stevetuna:

So… I guess the question is does such a drill ingrain bad habits, training me to omit more effective techniques in trade for more “sporting” methods? I’m a big believer in that you’ll fight as you train. Also, I’m crazy but not stoooopid – I understand that we can’t be blasting each other in the nuts or opening up with huge knees and elbows. .

Absolutely it does.

This is a common criticism I hear from my training partners in other disciplines. Basically they say: ìwell thatís great that youíre gonna head-butt, fish-hook, groin strike me, but Iíve seen you spar and it looks amazingly like an MMA fight with 16 oz, gloves head gear and shin guards.î

So during a fight situation with a massive adrenaline dump will sometime trained in KM do a pluck (lol) with an immediate counter to the throatÖ probably not, they will probably end up fighting like they sparÖ

[dkatman]

Re: Can fight class ingrain bad habits?

quote Nemo_Dat:

So during a fight situation with a massive adrenaline dump will sometime trained in KM do a pluck (lol) with an immediate counter to the throatÖ probably not, they will probably end up fighting like they sparÖ

I just disagree with what you say here.

But then again you are talking about two different things. My understanding is that Krav Maga isn’t about fighting. Krav Maga is about self defense. I would have no reason to pluck in a fight (A fight assumes I am squared off against someone and both people have an intent to do harm to the other). I have a reason to pluck if someone is choking me. To assume someone would pluck a choke and then begin to spar with someone is also against everything I have been taught. I would then agree with your assertion that I would do the same thing I have been taught and continuously train. I would pluck and kick. I would follow with a big elbow (I know these are strong. I broke my nose catching one), grab their shoulder and tricept and deliver several knees before tossing them to the side (ground).

I like knees and elbows way too much to think I might forget about them in the event of a fight either.

Dave

[destrangis]

Re: Can fight class ingrain bad habits?

Another reason for doing these drills is that you might already have an injury when suddenly attacked in a real fight and then are unable to fight in your regular, preferred way. For example, you might have a broken right arm, and now you can only punch with the left, or you might need to rely more strongly on your kicks, even if you prefer to punch. Or you may carry something precious in one arm, something you can’t drop (such as a baby) and now you’ll have to find a way to defend yourself from that position. Or you might like to kick, but are pushed into a corner during a surprise attack and now you’ll have to punch from there. It’s good to train in different ways, because you can’t always control what will happen in a fight. Better be prepared for anything.

[nemo-dat]

Re: Can fight class ingrain bad habits?

quote DKatman:

I just disagree with what you say here.

But then again you are talking about two different things. My understanding is that Krav Maga isn’t about fighting. Krav Maga is about self defense. I would have no reason to pluck in a fight (A fight assumes I am squared off against someone and both people have an intent to do harm to the other). I have a reason to pluck if someone is choking me. To assume someone would pluck a choke and then begin to spar with someone is also against everything I have been taught. I would then agree with your assertion that I would do the same thing I have been taught and continuously train. I would pluck and kick. I would follow with a big elbow (I know these are strong. I broke my nose catching one), grab their shoulder and tricept and deliver several knees before tossing them to the side (ground).

I like knees and elbows way too much to think I might forget about them in the event of a fight either.

Dave

That’s a good point.

I find myself wanting to go for a Thai plum alot instead of a frame in “shark tank” drills. I also feel the urge to go for the chin or liver as oppossed to the groin, throat or eyes. It seems to be a reaction based on my prior training.

[t-j]

Re: Can fight class ingrain bad habits?

Remember that KM advertises “Self Defense, Fighting, and Fitness.” I think it’s OK to spar, just remember to give emphasis on striking vital areas during the self defense portion.

Another way to get around the self defense training is to get a full body suit commonly called a “Red Man” suit in Law Enforcement. This would give students the opportunity to go all out on the suit. You can set up several self defense situations where the students can groin kick, elbow the head, headbutt, etc..

Repetition will build muscle memory, so I would make sure that you have “self defense” sparring as well that has no rules, or as little rules as humanly possible.

Train Hard…

TJ

[dkatman]

Re: Can fight class ingrain bad habits?

TJ,

Now you are talkin’. I got really gung ho several months ago that the training was great, but I also had a desire to really strike, as you suggest.

I figured I would be willing to spend my fair time in the suit to give others the opportunity as well.

I was informed that it would be something worthwhile to look into, but that I shouldn’t be SO reliant on that suit. I was informed that they really are professionals that know how to handle themselves and take the blows in that suit. It sounded like I would really get thrashed much more than I anticipated.

Still, that would be fun training to be able to incorporate from time to time. You know, to make sure you don’t pull any punches (or knees) when really faced with the stress of the attack. I don’t see it happening, but it would be good to do.

Dave

[g-v]

Re: Can fight class ingrain bad habits?

That ‘red man’ suit is an awesome idea.

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